Nicky Lowe [00:00:07]:
Hi. I’m Nikki Lowe, and welcome to the Wisdom For Working Mums podcast show where I share insights and interviews that support women to combine their family, work, and life in a more successful and sustainable way. Welcome. And today, I’m gonna be diving into the topic of burnout with my guest, Hannah Austin. Hannah is founder of She Shatters, which is a movement dedicated to breaking barriers and redefining success for women. And I got introduced to Hannah probably just over a year ago when we were part of a women’s networking group, for high performing women who’d experienced burnout. And I was really struck by Hannah and her story because I could resonate with so much about my background, and I think you’ll be able to really relate to what Hannah’s got to share about being kind of a high achieving ambitious woman in her career, but was losing touch with herself along the way. And in our conversation, we dive into Hannah’s extraordinary journey and explore the pivotal moments that really led her to establish She Shatters and write her beautiful book, Hello, Head, Meet Heart.
Nicky Lowe [00:01:18]:
That’s not just a title. It’s really, I suppose, a mantra that encapsulates Hannah’s philosophy on embracing vulnerability and authenticity in order to live a more fulfilling life. In this conversation, we unravel really the wisdom and insights that Hannah shares in a book and discuss the impact She Shatters has on empowering women to shatter their own limitations. Hannah specializes in managing and preventing burnout for professionals. And prior to founding She Shatters, Hannah spent 20 years as an executive in the healthcare industry, and she founded She Shatters in 2021 with a goal of helping employees and managers find a balance between their personal and professional lives, leading, really, a movement away from that corporate hustle culture. Hannah teaches others how to find their way back to a life of balance, brilliance and brightness, and she helps professionals create a life that restores their most precious resources, their time, their energy, and their passion for the things that truly light them up. So buckle up for an episode filled with inspiration and wisdom as we chat with my good friend, the incredible Hannah Austin. So welcome, Hannah.
Nicky Lowe [00:02:29]:
It’s a real pleasure to have you on my podcast this time. So, yeah, welcome.
Hannah Austin [00:02:34]:
Thank you so much for having me. I’ve missed you. It’s been a year. We were just chatting offline. You’ve been such an inspiration to me, so this is a a delight. Thank you.
Nicky Lowe [00:02:44]:
Yeah. And, yeah, we connected about a year ago just before you were launching your book, and I’ve just watched you have the most phenomenal year sharing your story and your wisdom. And I’m just really grateful that you’re coming on to my podcast to share it with the audience, your journey. So I’d love for you to kind of take us back right to where actually your book starts. So your first chapter in your book talks about this crash and burn moment where you talk about a piece of you died on the bathroom floor. So can you take my listeners back to the fall of, is it 2020 when you were on the bathroom floor and you had this really profound powerful moment in your life?
Hannah Austin [00:03:27]:
Yes. Thanks for the question. So I’m getting a little bit teary because, you know, it’s so true is, you know, I wrote in the book, a piece of me died on the bathroom floor that day. You know, when you’re in the thick of it and you’re in the thick of a moment where it is your darkest moment, you think that you have so much despair in your body, in your heart, in your mind. You don’t see on the other side. So, really, this was a compounding moment on the bathroom floor of, I would say, 20 years, so 2 decades of working myself into the ground, and this wasn’t my first time burning out. If I really truly I actually have charted how many times I’ve burned out. It’s been about 5 in my 2 decade career.
Hannah Austin [00:04:06]:
But I found myself, Nikki, in the middle of COVID, really struggling. And as a manager and leader of 20 years in the corporate world, you know, I thought my job was to be strong for everyone in my life and especially for people at work. So I was really drowning emotionally and physically. I was not asking for help, and the compounding energy really resulted in me getting ready for a Zoom call. You know, those of us who were on Zoom a ton during COVID and feeling like right after I got out of the shower, I just couldn’t move emotionally and physically. So I crumpled up on the bathroom floor. I remember the black tile floor on my cheek very being very cold and thinking to myself, I can’t live like this any longer. You know? And if I’m truly honest with the audience and with you, you know, the first couple months of COVID was okay.
Hannah Austin [00:05:00]:
I had been in energy mode and energy bunny. You know, Hannah can do this. No problem. Like, I always done for 20 years. But I felt a little piece of me dying every day when I would sit at my desk and say, I feel like there’s more to life than this, but I can’t leave my team during COVID. Like, I’d be leaving a car accident. Right? I’d be the only survivor. So being on that bathroom floor was a real moment for me to just say and look up to the universe, like, please help me.
Hannah Austin [00:05:26]:
I had never been a particularly religious person or person that asked for help. It was an an unusual for me, but I just felt like I needed to look up to the sky, to the ceiling, to the universe, to have her, and say, please help me. I need help now more than ever. Now, Nikki, in my home, I only have 2 small sliding doors into my bathroom. My husband was in the next room laying in bed, and, you know, I could’ve opened the door and asked for help from him, but and we’re super close, so it wasn’t anything to do with our relationship. But for me, it was that defining moment that I really needed to be brought to my knees to realize that the life that I was living wasn’t working for myself any longer.
Nicky Lowe [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I think that experience and almost the words that you use will be so relatable to so many people listening because my audience can relate to being a high achieving woman that’s highly independent, very driven, conscientious, hyper independent, so not used to asking for help. And as you say, digging deep, and you just used to been getting on with it. And in your book, you talk about actually, you you’re you’re a senior leader in a health care, large corporate organization. You’d worked your way up to be a senior leader, and it was actually your boss that wasn’t turning in, and you were shouldering that responsibility almost for other people, so being overly responsible.
Hannah Austin [00:06:55]:
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we all have leaders in our life that show us how to be a leader on the positive end and then what not to do as a leader from the, you know, the other end. But what I would say is, you know, I wanna give her some grace because this was the time that it was, you know, the the pandemic. None of us in our generation had ever dealt with anything like that. So I think we were all burned out, but instead of the organization helping, right, or at least trying to help, and then the line staff, those of us who were, you know, middle management and whatnot, we didn’t know what to do. It was uncharted territory. So I didn’t ask for help. Help really wasn’t it’s a vicious cycle cycle of burnout, which we often see around the world.
Hannah Austin [00:07:35]:
It’s a vicious cycle cycle of burnout, which we often see around the world, right, when it’s a toxic work culture. And that was, I wasn’t the only one struggling. In fact, I felt so guilty, Nikki, when I finally, you know, decided to make a change in my life because I did feel like I was leaving a car accident behind. I still, two and a half years later, look back and and feel guilty because a lot of my friends and colleagues are still working there. But what I realized, especially for those of us who have suffered from burnout, who when it gets so bad that you’re on your knees or on the bathroom floor is you have a choice to walk away, and you have to have the courage to be able to go overcome the fear and move forward into the light.
Nicky Lowe [00:08:14]:
So what happened in that moment when you were kind of asking the universe or something power bigger than you for help or insight at that point? Take us from that moment to then you write in the book. What what happened on that journey?
Hannah Austin [00:08:29]:
Yeah. I mean, you know, being on the bathroom floor, and I think it was the first time that I had said out loud, I need help. Please help me. You know, the words, please help me. And I just felt, like, a sense of relief, like, you know, saying it out loud and putting it outside. And it was the first time I had heard myself externally say the words. Like, I had been saying, I need help. I need help.
Hannah Austin [00:08:51]:
I need help. But it’s different when you vocalize it, when you actually put it out in the world. And then I remember literally looking up to the ceiling and just kind of, you know, looking up, and I just felt this sense of, like, you know, someone saying to me, and I don’t know if it’s a woman or man or just the universe saying to me, you have more to give. There’s more out there for you. Get up and dance like, get up. Get up, girl. You know? Get up and dance. And I just felt this sense of energy and hope, and it was really like I was you know, tears were streaming down my face, and it was like, who the hell is in the bathroom with me? Like, what what is going on? But it it just provided a little spark.
Hannah Austin [00:09:31]:
I mean, that’s the way I describe it, and I talk about it with women and men they support. Now 2 is this spark in my heart that was like, okay. You you have a little life in you left. Right? You have more strength. You can do it.
Nicky Lowe [00:09:43]:
I love that spark in my heart.
Hannah Austin [00:09:46]:
I got up. I put on my makeup, got dressed. I got on the Zoom call. I mean, one of the biggest regrets I have was, you you know, I wish I wouldn’t have gotten on the damn Zoom call. I wish I would have taken the day off. Now the new Hannah would have taken the day off, But the old Hannah put on her mask, got on the Zoom call, and ta da, I’m, you know, the woman on stage. You know, that’s life, Nikki. We all have, you know, responsibilities.
Hannah Austin [00:10:08]:
But now I realize, you know, now more than ever, I can choose, you know, how I show up.
Nicky Lowe [00:10:12]:
But that was probably a survival response, wasn’t it? Where it it doesn’t come from you know, we’re we’re under resourced. We go to those survival places, but I love that you can see the difference. It’s almost a different identity that you that you can relate to. So tell us then. That led you to write your book, Hello Head, Meet Heart. So tell us more about the book. Who’s it for, and what what’s this book all about?
Hannah Austin [00:10:38]:
Great question. So, you know, after the bathroom floor moment, there was a lot that went into it. Right? The book unfolds, you know, the story, but, basically, I chose to walk away from a 20 year career in order to save myself. And I had a very supportive husband and partner that, you know, supported me along the way to make that decision, right, financially, emotionally, spiritually, whatnot. And so, you know, that began my, you know, starting She Shatters, burnout prevention company, meeting people like you, being inspired by women that are like, you can do this. You can craft a new life for yourself. And then I thought, well, I’ll start a podcast. People were asking who I was supporting.
Hannah Austin [00:11:11]:
I’d love to listen to something, so I Googled how to start a podcast, talk to people about starting a podcast, and just kinda cast my net and saw you know, does anyone gonna listen to it? Like, what’s gonna happen? So I found that I enjoyed interviewing people and listening to people, and I knew that because I wasn’t working anymore, I needed to take some classes on things that I was interested in. So I started taking a class on how to write a book and, met Georgetown University professor, and he said, your story is really powerful. Love to partner with you. And so I crafted the book for the next 8 months. I infused some of my podcast episodes and transcribed those and put those also in the book. So the book is a combination of my life story around burnout and how I rose from the ashes, and then it’s infused with a variety of clients and and interviewees, their story to make the the book more powerful, but also to make it more relatable in that, their burnout does not discriminate. Men and women suffer from burnout, and each of our stories are so different yet so similar. And the common thread under it is, you know, we’re yearning for something deeper, something more, and there’s a death happening in our life and our spirit when you burn out.
Hannah Austin [00:12:20]:
And sometimes we look at it as a bad thing. But honestly, Vicky, you know, collapsing on the bathroom floor and then later, you know, in the hospital, you know, that was my body’s, wake up call for me to say, get out of this life and get into a new one, and you can do it. So
Nicky Lowe [00:12:36]:
It’s almost like the breakdown to breakthrough, isn’t it? It’s yeah.
Hannah Austin [00:12:42]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So the book is really for, you know, those people who, you know, I thought initially Nikki suffering from burnout. Right? I’m like, oh, this is the burnout book. When you have burnout, you can pick this up at the bookstore. But what I’ve really realized, and this is a good learning, I think, for you and your audience too, is burnout is is such a bigger term. Right? It’s gonna be the outward. Right? The inward is really, are you at a pivot point in your life, and what are you experiencing psychologically, you know, you know, physically? Like, what are those actually experiencing those thoughts and feelings? But then it’s ultimately you’re yearning for something deeper.
Hannah Austin [00:13:17]:
Right? You don’t know what it is or how to find it. And then often, it’s for those people who are, like, really good at holding it together on the outside. But, like, they may, at the stoplight, start crying or they may, you know, have to be on mute or, you know, turn their camera off because they’re having, like, a road rage incident. Like, whatever it is, you’re starting to feel yourself crumble from the inside, but you really don’t know what to do next. And so I really wrote this book. Frankly, it’s a healing journey for me, but also the unintentional consequences have been, a lot of times people with burnout don’t know what to do. They feel isolated. They feel lonely.
Hannah Austin [00:13:51]:
And so I really wanted this to be a safe harbor and a safe place for them to laugh, cry, you know, whatever. There’s some exercises in the book, and, hopefully, it can help them get at least to another side.
Nicky Lowe [00:14:02]:
I love that. Safe harbor. Like, such a beautiful term and so needed for so many people, as you say. It can feel a really lonely experience. In your book, you tell this really powerful story about going to a Qigong class. Can you share kind of what led you to that class and that kind of powerful experience and the lessons you took from it, please?
Hannah Austin [00:14:26]:
Yeah. Thanks. So I think one of the biggest, decisions that I made for the good after I burned out was I didn’t have a job. I was born out of my mind, but I needed some direction. I needed to, like, have a clear path of what was next because I’m a very strategic operational focused person. So I googled, what did Oprah do when she burned out? True story. And it said, Canyon Ranch in, you know, Tucson, Arizona. This is the place that you’re gonna, you know, reset your life and find yourself from the inside out.
Hannah Austin [00:14:52]:
I was like, that sounds good. It was quite expensive, so I will tell the audience. But you know what? I was in a place where it was like, f it. I’m gonna put it on the credit card and hope. Right? Like many of our coaching programs, like, hope that this is gonna be the thing.
Nicky Lowe [00:15:05]:
I didn’t know Oprah had burnt out. When did that happen to happen?
Hannah Austin [00:15:10]:
Years. Year. I mean, when she was in her, you know, rolling her fat on the stage, you know, and that when she was in the doctor Phil when she had the court case.
Nicky Lowe [00:15:19]:
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right.
Hannah Austin [00:15:22]:
So I go to Canyon Ranch. It’s beautiful. It’s phenomenal. It’s basically a health spa. It’s holistic health spa. And so you basically, from 9 to 4, you can craft your own plan. You know, you do yoga. You have a colonic.
Hannah Austin [00:15:35]:
You can do sound bath therapy. I did a lot. Let’s put it that way. So there was this class that was called qigong, and I had heard about tai chi, and I I had done yoga and Pilates, but qigong sounded really interesting. Plus, I was like, you know, never heard of it. I’m trying new things. So I get to this class. The story is actually in the book.
Hannah Austin [00:15:53]:
I won’t get too much into it, but, really, the basis of Qigong is all about pushing energy towards you, that you want and, you know, feeling your spirit and then pushing away the negative of your energy and really just do it. It’s like you’re a crane. You’re like this beautiful crane. You’ve seen these Japanese and Chinese people do it, you know, on the on the, like, karate kid or something like that. But it’s truly a very special, very special modality. And so I had this gentleman. I was the only person in the class, because mind you, this was during the pandemic. I had a private class with this gentleman, And the first thing he said to me is, like, he looked at my feet, and he’s like, you look like you’re ready to bolt.
Hannah Austin [00:16:29]:
And I was like, well, yeah, I’m always ready to bolt. I gotta be ready for anything. You know? That’s how how I was raised and why I was raised, and we can get to that. But and he says, you know, tells me about the story of Qigong and how important it is to bring breathe the energy towards you and exhale all the negative energy outwards. And I had always really struggled, Nikki, with being still. Right? I’m a very fast talker. I like to move quickly. I’m just 2 steps in front of someone else type of person, typically.
Hannah Austin [00:16:57]:
So this was really uncomfortable for me, and we breathed in and out. We were under this beautiful willow tree, and, you know, he was really helpful in helping me with imagery. He said, you know, think about all those beautiful things that you love and, you know, move your hands and bring them towards your heart and, you know, think about all those things that are cluttering your mind and move your hands away from your body and let those be released. And, you know, meditation had never worked for me, but doing this collective breathing with the imagery, with the physical movement was really special, heartwarming. And I just I’d never felt so connected to the I never felt so in alignment. It was like my head and heart were like a puzzle, and they were locked into place. And I started thinking about Peter and I sailing and my dog and, you know, being in a comfortable beach and and bringing that towards my heart. And then I started thinking about all the negativity of my job and all the pressure and responsibility that I had had on my heart, mind, and shoulders for 2 decades, and it was just this really defining moment for me.
Hannah Austin [00:18:07]:
And it really made me think about, you know, the fact that I had either lived in 2 camps most of my life, my head at work and my heart and my personal life, even to the point, Nikki, that I actually got feedback in one I remember this. In one of my annual reviews from my boss, and she said, you are such a different person outside of work than you are at work. And I thought, oh, whatever. You know? I’m being more professional. And now it really makes sense, the feedback that I had gotten over the years is I was never bringing the true Hannah to work. I was never allowing my heart because I was so in business mode. And so this was a a really, it was almost like a gift, a box that I had opened for myself that was like, it’s okay to be the head and the heart. In fact, when you are the head and the heart, you’re truly full.
Hannah Austin [00:18:59]:
You’re truly whole. And so, you know, that was just the beginning of a one class, Nikki. One qigong class. It was the beginning of a profound, I think, pivot for me internally where all the puzzle pieces really locked into place, and it provided more sense of hope of you can do this. A new Hannah can be formed. You’re still Hannah, but all the pieces of her are coming together.
Nicky Lowe [00:19:24]:
That’s such a beautiful and powerful story, and, yeah, what an experience. And it just makes me think about, you know, living in a wholehearted way, you know, that, actually, we need to be integrated. All those different parts of ourselves need to be kind of included and brought in. And I’m imagining there’s gonna be quite a few people listening to this that are gonna relate to their professional identity and personal identity. And I know that was the case for me. My friends used to laugh at me going, the Nikki we see of a weekend is not the Nikki that goes into that big corporate job. And like you, I was like, well, that’s a good thing. You know? I’m I’m putting my professional kind of Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:20:06]:
Foot forward. But, really, it’s mask. I wasn’t integrating. And there’s something about those somatic exercises, isn’t it, where their body you’re getting into your body that is needed to get you out your head and, as you say, connect. And that’s the power of that title of your book. It’s like hello, head, meet heart. Like, we can be together. We can be on the same team.
Nicky Lowe [00:20:28]:
We can be integrated, and the power of doing that. Well, and I
Hannah Austin [00:20:33]:
think the other piece is the loneliness that’s associated with climbing the ladder. You know, I think that’s not really talked about. You and I talked about this, I believe, a year ago, and I remember our conversation is, you know, when you rise and you get more you promoted, which is great, You know? Great money and great, you know, whatnot. But there’s a sense of loneliness. If you truly are a professional and you’re and you’re being professional and you’re not talking or gossiping as you shouldn’t be, There are so many things inside you that you’re like, I need to get this out. And I had a therapist. I had to support a family and friends. But when you are a heart centered person or you’re an empath, it hits deeper.
Hannah Austin [00:21:07]:
You take that with you. You can’t just turn it off. Right? And so I think you know, I know you talk talk to your, clients about this is the loneliness associated with, you know, when I was on that bathroom floor that day, and for the, you know, couple times I had burned out. I when I think back to all those times I burned out, Nikki, the reason number one reason why is I had moved so far away from myself. I had lost myself because I was so focused on the external, which, you know, society doesn’t help with, and let’s face it. That’s kind of what working woman CEO looks like. It’s not like a woman who’s really connected to her heart. That’s never what I grew up knowing and learning.
Hannah Austin [00:21:47]:
It was women in high heels who carry a briefcase, who look very put together and poised, and they say the right things and they do
Nicky Lowe [00:21:53]:
the right things. But that’s not really requesting the working girl is you know, that was yeah.
Hannah Austin [00:21:59]:
Or 9 to 5. Yeah. I mean yeah. Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:22:03]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think that’s so important to say about that loneliness, and I think that’s why the work that you’re doing and the support that you give your clients is, like, profound. In your book, you you briefly talk about actually, this wasn’t your first rodeo, and you mentioned this earlier about, actually, when you look, you can track back almost a pattern. Would you mind sharing that in in whatever detail you feel comfortable with? Because I think, again, it will help my listeners recognize often as breadcrumbs that lead to this point, and we can see them looking backwards, but at the time, we can’t can’t make sense of it.
Hannah Austin [00:22:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of there’s always those clues throughout your life, and I have my, you know, coaching clients. I don’t do much coaching anymore. I’ll be referring them to Nikki. But I think one of the things that I do the most with my clients initially and friends and family is, you know, the feelings that you’re feeling are coming from somewhere. And what was the when was the first time you actually felt burned out? Or when was the first time you actually felt you were removing yourself from who you were? Right? Or you started to go slowly, slowly away from who you truly were. And, you know, I don’t wanna blame my parents because we talked about this and they read the book before I sent it out.
Hannah Austin [00:23:16]:
But, you know, a lot of your childhood and the way you were raised. Right? It’s it’s like a therapist joke. Right? What happened in your well, in your childhood? That’s why you’re screwed up or not screwed up. But, you know, I I was when I wrote the book, I had to be really honest with my readers. If I’m asking them to do the hard work, I had to do the hard work myself, which really involved you know, I you know, my dad left my mom and I at a young age, you know, to live a different life, and that was very painful at the age of 3 4, and so I learned very, very quickly to keep moving. Keep moving because when I slowed down, I would feel the emotion of that abandonment and loss. You know, when you have a parent that either leaves or you’re adopted, there’s a little piece of you that inside, you always feel like you’re broken or something’s missing, and, you know, I didn’t really address that. Again, I had therapy at such a young age, but when you have something so traumatic like that happen, there’s a hole.
Hannah Austin [00:24:11]:
There’s a hole in yourself and a hole in your heart, and you work every day in your life to feel that. Now going back to kind of middle school and and high school, I did have a stepfather in my life who was very type a. In fact, I wrote in the book type a minus because when he read my book, he’s like, I’m not type a, so I jokingly wrote type a minus. But he was a great role model in many ways, but he was an overachiever and, he, you know, wanted perfectionist. He thought I should get a’s, and he thought I should excel. You know, both him and my mom really pushed me, but they also believed that I could do it, and I did. But that was an immense pressure. I was also an only child where all of their energy was focused on me, and I had no one else to spread the, you know, drama or the life or the, you know, parenting on.
Hannah Austin [00:24:56]:
So I was primary focus. And then the other piece was, you know, my parents quit their jobs, and we traveled around the world. So I lived in a variety of different countries at such a young age. And I remember, you know, being an only child and traveling around the world where a lot of people didn’t speak my language, and a lot of people I I was immersed in their culture. You know, I had to work harder to make friends, you know, feel connected, not feel lonely. So I have always been a very independent person who has hustled for most of her life. And what I have learned prior to my big burnout, the end of the burnout was, you know, I would go go go, and then I would be sick. I would go go go, and then I would be sick because I didn’t have people jokingly said to me, you either are brake or gas.
Hannah Austin [00:25:48]:
You are not in between. You’re not a slop a slow caution 20 miles an hour girl. You’re 90 or you’re crashed. And, you know, I had been in car accidents. I had been in ski accidents. You know, all of my lifestyle had been showing me that, you know, you probably should slow down because you keep getting in these accidents. And I I the the bruises that I would experience or the concussions that I’ve had or the, you know, the things that happened in my life, I just thought that they were, you know, bad luck or I was a klutz or whatever. But now when I really look at it, and I’ve done the research talked with a variety of people, there can be a pattern of behavior or physical pattern of behavior for people who really struggle with, the breaker guess symptoms.
Hannah Austin [00:26:32]:
So
Nicky Lowe [00:26:33]:
Yeah. And you also thank you for that because I think it helps people to reflect on actually what am I we talk about it. Oh, it’s just my personality style. It’s just too much. And we can almost make it so generalized that it’s just the way it is without going, actually, what are the influencing factors in here, and what what’s actually within my choice and giving you itself the freedom to go, okay. That might be my personality type, but how do I wanna live? And you talk in your book actually in your early twenties. About 25, you’d rise through the ranks very quickly in your kind of corporate career and and around about your mid twenties, which again, I find in my work with my clients is quite a common experience that people enter the world of work and are like, right. I’m gonna prove the hell out of myself and give it everything.
Nicky Lowe [00:27:24]:
And we’re individual contributors where we’re money we’re we’re rewarded for the effort that we put in, and it also almost becomes intoxicating. Can you share a bit about your early career?
Hannah Austin [00:27:37]:
Yeah. I mean, you know, I had I was premed initially, and then I realized, god, I’d have to go to school for almost all my life, so I pivoted quickly. But in the summers, I was raised my by my grandparents at at our Lake Havoc in Minnesota, so I really enjoyed the geriatric population. And, you know, I decided to go into senior housing, but it was a 24 hour operation. And so I had my first interview for my first job right out of college. I was applying for one job, And during the interview, the gentleman that was interviewing me said, no. I want you as the director for the entire facility. That’s gonna be your job.
Hannah Austin [00:28:10]:
And I was like, what? I can’t do that. I’m only 22. And I so I I got the job, and so that was great to start my career. I think it’s, you know, it was honorable to feel like they saw something inside me, but it was the beginning of these patterns of behavior of I gotta be perfect on the outside. I’m paddling frantically behind the scenes. My staff, Nikki, were older than me, so I had a 100 staff that recorded to me when I was 22, and most of the average age was 35, 45, 50. And so, you know, when a blond haired, blue eyed, young whippersnapper comes in and she’s like, I’m the boss, that doesn’t go over very well initially for, you know, people who are used to having a more older and established person. And so I really had to overcome a lot of, you know, who are you, and I had to prove myself.
Hannah Austin [00:28:58]:
And I did. You know, I would jump in and do what I I needed to do, and I would be on the floor with the rest of the workers. But it did it came at a price. And I remember, you know, I had to get surgery, and, you know, one of the times that I had to get surgery when I was working there, I was on, Vicodin because I had had stomach surgery. And, Nikki, 2 days after surgery, I was supposed to be off bed rest for 7 to 10 days. I drove myself to work. 2 days later, I was literally hunched over. I couldn’t even stand up, erect upright, and I worked.
Hannah Austin [00:29:33]:
And I remember my boss coming in and saying, what are you doing here? You’re supposed to be off work for 8 days. And I was like, I’m here. You know, my staff’s here. I gotta be here too. So what crazy person would show up to work, can’t even stand upright on, you know, pain med pain meds, right, drove themselves to work, shouldn’t be doing I mean, I was obsessed. I was, a workaholic, and that was I was 23 years old. So that’s where the patterns of behavior came in is work is the most important thing.
Nicky Lowe [00:30:04]:
Yeah. And just as listening to you tell that story about how your head had the ability to override your body. It’s like, it doesn’t matter if you’re in pain, doesn’t matter if you need just rest and recuperation. The head’s gonna take control and do whatever’s whatever’s needed. And it’s interesting because actually in your book, you talk about these 6 selves. And when I read them, I was like, oh, can you share with my listeners what they are? Because I think they’re they’re gonna really relate to them.
Hannah Austin [00:30:33]:
Yeah. I mean, the many of us who are in leadership, we’ve done the DISC assessment or we’ve done the enneagram or we’re like, I’m a 3 or I’m an 8. Like, we love to type ourselves. There’s quizzes for everything. But one of the things I wanted to, have in the book was I wanted I mean, I talked directly to the reader in the book. It’s like we’re best friends and girlfriends. Like, I’m I’m talking to you like I do normally. And I wanted to have a chapter on, the 6 selves because, you know, in the women that I were coaching, they were falling into buckets.
Hannah Austin [00:31:04]:
You know, I remember on a white piece of paper, I was like, you know, Janice is a people pleaser and Rebecca is this. And so I would I was trying to have these stories come through, and so I established these selves, which I call, which is, you know, people pleaser, overachiever. You know, there’s there’s 6 of them, or you can read the book. But it’s really around who do you identify the most with, what characteristics. And then, you know, it’s also a way for you to see that you aren’t alone, that there’s other types and people in the world that are falling into these buckets. And, you know, that has been one of the biggest chapters, Nikki, where people have said to me, I have d random DMs on Instagram. Like, hey. I’m an overachiever, or, hey.
Hannah Austin [00:31:42]:
I’m a people pleaser. Hey. I’m a, a woman person that I set a goal and I keep moving the line out. I’m never satisfied. Right? And so I think this has a really been a great way for women and people, men in general, to kind of generalize, like, what camp are they in? The moral of the story is we’re all in one camp. It doesn’t really matter, but it’s first identifying what camp you’re in so you know how to unravel the patterns of behavior. It’s like a diagnosis. Right? The patterns of behavior that are no longer working for you.
Hannah Austin [00:32:12]:
I’ve had a lot of, people, and I also have another chapter in the book that a lot of people are reaching out to me about are, you know, those that unconscious life and those people that are choosing to numb numb their, burnout with alcohol, drugs, sex. I I did some incredible interviews with people who shared so much vulnerability with me on how they’re filling their heart and what external, things that they’re doing. It’s really heartbreaking, but at the same time, it’s been really cathartic to have people share their stories and speak out loud what’s really happening behind the scenes. I think saying it out loud, like the moment when I was on the bathroom floor, I need help. I can’t live like this anymore. The power of speaking something out loud has been really, really helpful. So the 6th self has been kind of a way for people to almost create an avatar of themselves where they’re not having to speak exactly about themselves, but they’re like, that’s me.
Nicky Lowe [00:33:09]:
Absolutely. And I think just recognizing, like, which of the tendencies that I might have. And, actually, my experiences, we have a almost a constellation of them. It’s like, yeah, my people pleaser might be my my my primary, but I’ve also got the over functioner and, yeah, over helper and all of those different how they combine. It’s almost like, I imagine it as, you know, we you go from green to amber to red. And the more that you have those as a consternation, the the more I I talk about I’m predisposed to burnout, and it’s not that I’m genetically predisposed. It’s my tendencies, if I’m not aware of them, have strategies and almost, like, guardrails that, like, scaffolding that stops me getting into the unhelpful zone with those. And I I really kind of related to that reading about those 6 selves.
Nicky Lowe [00:34:01]:
And in your book, you really emphasize the importance of embracing kind of that vulnerability and authenticity, and that really comes through in your book. How have those principles played out in your journey and in your life and in in kind of your recovery, I suppose, in your
Hannah Austin [00:34:19]:
Yeah. I mean, I’m taking a deep breath because, you know, I remember so it’s a a year and 7 days ago, I pushed send, and upload to Amazon. I had an the night before I hit upload upload the book to Amazon, I had a little bit of a crisis. I thought, this is a pretty raw and real book. There’s things in here that a lot of people in my life don’t know. You know, it’s like a tell all or whatever, however you wanna describe it. And do I really wanna be this vulnerable? Do I wanna put my dirty laundry out there? Like, you know, what why am I doing this? And it was kind of another reckoning with myself. Like, I had to do it.
Hannah Austin [00:34:59]:
The universe was saying you have to do this. It’s for you. It’s for the other people. And now every day when I get, you know, messages from strangers or quotes or or even book reviews, even if they’re good or bad, it’s like people are reading it. People are digesting it. And so I think this year has been a year of, you know, validation that being vulnerable is not just, the hot topic to do or, you know, the buzzword or, you know, I hate when people say, like, transparent. Right? Because that’s so overused. But, like, literally putting yourself, your true self, out on the line into the world every day is so freeing, Nikki.
Hannah Austin [00:35:42]:
It is also so rewarding in the sense that it very quickly weeds those people out who aren’t for you, and it very quickly brings those people who are so special to you and who warm your heart and who cherish and honor you and vice versa. I’ve never had such deep and rich relationships in my life because I’m gravitating and people are gravitating towards me who want to be there. Now with that being said, this has been extremely painful in the sense that when people gravitate towards you, there are others that are like, I want nothing to do with you, or that’s not what happened, or people people like to do that. And so what I’ve just had to realize is not everybody’s gonna read my book, even my best some of my best friends, you know, didn’t didn’t buy it, whatever. But those people show you who they are. And when you show yourself and who you truly are, there’s a sense of freedom, but there’s a sense of grief and loss. So being on the other side of burnout to your point and to to to, you know, throwing it all out there, if you wanna feel the freest that you’ve ever felt and the most joy and the most lit up from the inside out, this is what you gotta do. But there’s also painful.
Hannah Austin [00:36:58]:
Right? When you have a death of an old life, there’s grief that has to come. But, god, I wish I would have done it sooner.
Nicky Lowe [00:37:08]:
So many profound kind of insights in what you’ve just said. And I think what went through my mind is when you talked about hitting send on your book to Amazon. I think is it Brene Brown that talks about the shit shame storm? That, like, when that vulnerability comes out, you go in with that shit shame storm where like, the shame comes in. You’re like, what am I doing? Like, the vulnerability just becomes kind of dialed up and to, as you say, that reckoning, that personal reckoning about, well, am I gonna lean into this? Or, I mean, Renee talks about shame shields about whether we work against our shame. We kind of turn away from it, turn towards it, and appease, or actually to stand there in that rawness and go, no. I’m gonna do this. And the beauty and the power in that, but also the courage that it took. And I also really appreciate your honesty about, yeah, there’s all this wonderful stuff, but there’s there’s there’s yin and yang, isn’t there? And it made me think about, you know, you’ve gone out there and shone your light.
Nicky Lowe [00:38:13]:
You know, you’ve taken, you know, your your burnout experience, and you’re going out there and shining your light. And you’ve got some people that come in and just protect your flame, and they nourish it and feed it, and you’ve got other people that wanna come and blow it out. And just those people get shown to you in those moments, don’t they? And you it becomes really clear.
Hannah Austin [00:38:33]:
And the they’ve been surprising. Yeah. And it’s been really surprising who you know, if I would’ve if I would’ve had a bus, a burnout bus, and I’m like, who’s gonna be riding this bus with me for the next 2 years? The passengers are not the same people that I thought were gonna be on the bus. Right? I’ve had some people get off at, you know, stop 4. Right? But it’s the people that are still on the bus with you. And I think that’s just part of being mature, you know, getting a little bit older, stepping into your true self. You know? And I you know, I’m human, so I started to judge those people, like, why did they not like me? Why did they not why didn’t they support me? What did I I got into that, you know, stewing because I’m human. Right? I’m not just a self help person.
Hannah Austin [00:39:09]:
And then it’s like, woah. Tai chi, qigong moment. It wasn’t for them. They’re not ready. They’re not for me. I’m good. I have these 20 other people that would ride or die for me, and they’re on their own journey. And it’s not that they’re bad.
Hannah Austin [00:39:27]:
I’m not gonna label them as they suck or they’re mean friends or they’re bad friends. Like, they’re just not for me. And that to me is like I’ve tried to really say that a lot the last 2 years. You’re just not for me. And that for me has been, like, push it away. Not be rude and push it away. Just I’m I’m here when you’re ready to, but I’m I’m good. So Yeah.
Hannah Austin [00:39:51]:
That’s been helpful.
Nicky Lowe [00:39:51]:
I I recently ordered a solo episode, and it was all about belonging to yourself. That that’s the journey that I’ve gone on to. You know, I have this you know, the people pleaser in me wants to please everybody and be friends with everybody and, you know, belong to all these different groups. And the mature, wise woman in me is like, you gotta belong to yourself first, and that might mean that you don’t belong in places, and that’s okay. And it reminds me of Michelle Obama in her book where she talks about the light we carry. And, she she’s curated this kitchen table. Like, it’s a metaphor, but it’s a physical kitchen table. And she says there are people that are no longer at my kitchen table.
Nicky Lowe [00:40:27]:
And she said I found the higher I climb, certain people can’t take the altitude, and they can’t come on the climb with me. And I’m like, oh, that and it’s not a judgment. It’s just a yeah. Yeah. So I I love it.
Hannah Austin [00:40:42]:
It’s different it’s different air. It’s different air, Nikki. Yeah. I mean, when you said the altitude, I I I’ve only read part of Michelle’s. Sorry, Michelle. But, you know, I think it’s just different air. And here’s the thing, like, you and I talked about this before. Like, I never knew there was such, clean air to breathe.
Hannah Austin [00:41:00]:
Does that make sense? I never knew because I wasn’t really, you know, breathing all the way in and out. Truly. I was just kind of, okay. What’s going on? You know, like, the kind of, you know, I I could feel the body difference. I was like this walking around, like, as a, but now it’s like right? Of course, I still have days that I’m like, but I think it’s like when you don’t know the life that you could live, your breathing is different. Right? That’s why they talk about exhaling because your oxygen is different.
Nicky Lowe [00:41:32]:
And I’m imagining removing yourself from particular toxic environments or relationships as well because that air isn’t clean. So being able to fully breathe in and breathe in that cleaner is so powerful. And you talk about helping others create an extraordinary life. So what is and I think you’ve alluded to some of this in our conversation, but what is an extraordinary life for you?
Hannah Austin [00:42:00]:
You know, if you were to ask me that 3 years ago, I would say, you know, all external things. Right? You got a great job. You gotta have a house. You got a great husband. You got a car. You know, all the stuff that I think is societal expectations. You asked me about an extraordinary life now. An extraordinary life is, not something that you can describe.
Hannah Austin [00:42:19]:
It’s something that you feel. Right? And I like to use the analogy, this is actually not in the book because it came to me after the book. But people started asking me during my radio and media tour, like, what does this book mean to you, and who is it for? You know, the typical questions, which are great. But what it really made me realize was, you know, my definition of an extraordinary life is, you know, that Wizard of Oz movie, right, where it starts out in black and white, and you’re kinda living day to day like a kind of Groundhog Day. You’re getting up, going to work, getting on the Zoom, you know, having your Taco Tuesday or whatever you’re doing. You know? It’s just regular life, taking your kids to to soccer. But then at the end of the day, you’re feeling like you have no gas left in your tank. Right? And you’re not doing anything well.
Hannah Austin [00:43:02]:
You’re not doing work well. You’re not doing personal life well. You’re feeling like you should be should, should, should, should, should. But to me, an extraordinary life is that moment when you’re stopping and pausing, whether you’re forced to, right, because your body’s telling you or you make the conscious choice to say, this life isn’t working for me, and I’m gonna explore a bigger one. And you begin to start exploring. You know? What lights your you up from the inside out? What what helps you find that spark again? Right? And then that is that moment. It’s that bridge that’s really carrying you over from that mundane black and white day to day to the Technicolor side. Right? The movie is now full of life, and you’re feeling creative, and you’re stepping into your extraordinary the oxygen and the air is different.
Hannah Austin [00:43:45]:
Like, you feel a sense of alignment, and that to me is what an extraordinary life is like. That’s how I’m describing it, and that’s part of the reason why I know we don’t we’re not on color for, the audience. We’re just on audio, but the cover of my book is actually, you know, rainbows. And the rainbow colors are supposed to represent the different emotions and feelings, that is life. So it’s really around extraordinary life isn’t something you can describe. It is a feeling, and it’s different for everybody.
Nicky Lowe [00:44:20]:
So powerful, Hannah. So powerful. And I there’s so much we could we could kind of continue to talk about. But if you were to just pick some key practices or strategies that you would recommend for anybody listening that’s going, oh my god. I want that. Like, I’m in black and white at the moment, and I want the multicolor. Where would you suggest they start?
Hannah Austin [00:44:43]:
I think one of the biggest exercises that has been helpful and when I travel around the country doing my speaking engagements, I actually have the audience. It’s a workshop. It’s called the Burn Bright workshop, and I have them do this exercise. And it is really all about the shoulds in your life. You know, you have to recognize right now in your life what isn’t working for you to start feeling what could something new look like. So it’s just a simple black and white. On a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle. On the left side, I want you to just write down all the shoulds, everything that you’re responsible for.
Hannah Austin [00:45:16]:
Just, like, start to scribble and be angry and highlight it and underline it and do whatever and just exhaust it. Just get it out. And then I want you to read that list out loud. Again, we’re putting into the audience. We’re put turning it to the universe. We’re saying it out loud with our voice and our throats. And then on the right side of the page, I want you to write down what you want, what you really, really want as opposed to the shoulds. Looking on the left side of the page, are those things that you really should be doing that you actually want to do, or are those just shoulds that you’ve created to cry busyness in your life so you don’t have to feel the emotion of what you want or the loss of the life that you want that you truly, right at this moment, don’t have.
Hannah Austin [00:46:02]:
This is really important to write down in black and white. I know a lot of you are rolling your eyes. I hate journaling. This is not a journal. This is a list for you. This is your truth list and your wish list. And then from there, it’s really reconciling on that want list. Start scheduling on the right side that list of things you want, scheduling them those into your schedule for the next couple weeks.
Hannah Austin [00:46:25]:
You know, pick one want, add it to your schedule, and say, I want to explore drawing, painting, writing. I wanna be a crocheter. I wanna quilt, whatever it is, or I wanna have more deep relationships. And start scheduling those into your schedule and see. The goal of this exercise is to acknowledge the truth of what’s happening in your life, to lead into the wish list, but then to also start scheduling it on your schedule so that before you know it, Nikki, the wishes and the wants are reality. The shoulds are by the wayside. I mean, certainly, there’s things that we should be doing in our life. We have to eat and breathe and, you know, do grocery shopping.
Hannah Austin [00:47:02]:
We have to live our life. But a lot of the times, we have a lot of clutter in our heart and soul, and this is eliminating that. So that’s the first exercise. And then the second exercise is scheduling time for you to do this. Right? The stop and pause. And scheduling whether it’s an hour a week or taking yourself to the beach for the weekend or whatever you can afford, giving yourself some time to free up, space in your mind and heart to do nothing, to just feel what comes to you. Or if all else fails, take a take a tai chi class or a qigong class because it was in that moment of, oh gosh, rolling my eyes. I’m not gonna take this class.
Hannah Austin [00:47:38]:
What is it gonna do for me? That those are the moments that you find the most clarity where in those things that you would never think you do, it’s tapping into that creativity and letting yourself be vulnerable. Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:47:52]:
And I would encourage anybody listening that if what Hannah’s just said about scheduling time to do nothing, just check your internal reaction to that. Because for so many people, it’s like, I can’t do that or I don’t know how to. And that, again yeah. Yeah. Just that just checking with that feeling because that probably tells you more than anything that you gotta lean lean into the discomfort. So as I say, I could talk to you forever, Hannah. And this I know
Hannah Austin [00:48:24]:
I missed you so much. I feel like we should do this every week.
Nicky Lowe [00:48:28]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I’m up for that. But if there was just one thing you want somebody listening to this conversation to take away, what what would you want that one thing to be?
Hannah Austin [00:48:41]:
I always love to leave, you know, podcasts and my audience with this. You know? I believe that there is an extraordinary life inside all of us. Sometimes we just need all a little help to tap into it. So if you’re like me or you’re like Nikki and you feel like you’re too strong or you’re you’re afraid to ask for help or afraid to tell your story, just remember that telling your story and asking for help is an immediate freedom. You will feel it in your mind, your body, and your heart, and I believe you can do it, my friend. You know, let go, let someone else in, and lean into your head and heart.
Nicky Lowe [00:49:14]:
My heart. I give you people won’t be able to see the visual, but, like, my hand went to my heart because my heart just swelled when you said that, Hannah. Such beautiful words and such powerful way to end. I know people are gonna wanna find out more about you and your work if they don’t know about it already. So where would you point them where where can people find out more about you?
Hannah Austin [00:49:36]:
Sure. They can reach me at, www.sheshatters.com, and all of my items are there. The book is also on Amazon or at your local bookstore. So I’d love to hear from readers. Grab the book. Let me know what you think. DM me. Love to start the conversation about how I can help you support your extraordinary life.
Nicky Lowe [00:49:55]:
Fantastic. And I’ll put all the links in the show notes. So just thank you, Hannah. It’s always a joy to speak to you. And I loved our conversation.
Hannah Austin [00:50:04]:
Me too. Thank you, Nikki.
Nicky Lowe [00:50:08]:
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