Nicky Lowe [00:00:06]:
Hi. It’s Nicky Lowe, and welcome to the Wisdom For Working Mums podcast show. I’m your host. And for nearly 2 decades now, I’ve been an executive coach and leadership development consultant. And on this show, I share evidence based insights from my coaching, leadership, and psychological expertise and inspiring interviews that help women like you to combine your work, life, and motherhood in a more successful and sustainable way. Join me and my special guest as we delve into leadership and lifestyle topics for women, empowering you to thrive one conversation at a time. I’m so happy that you’re here, and let’s go on with today’s episode. Welcome to this episode.

Nicky Lowe [00:00:47]:
And today we’re diving into a topic that I think is really gonna resonate. What I find with my clients who are deeply ambitious and high achieving is in the demands of life, we can lose our ability to trust ourselves. And when we’re navigating those demands that pull us in so many different directions, and we have personal lives that we want to fully show up for, It can be difficult to find the ground underneath our feet. It’s like we’re in quicksand. But today’s guest is here to help. My guest is Meg Traccano. She’s a motivational psychologist and life coach for women. And like so many of us, Meg knows firsthand what it feels like to burn out while chasing success.

Nicky Lowe [00:01:31]:
And that experience has fueled her mission to help women reconnect with their authentic desires and reclaim their time, energy and sense of purpose. In this episode, Meg shares how we can break free from societal conditioning and the weight of others’ expectations to make empowered, confident decisions in our careers and personal life. Meg will help us learn how we can claim our right to be here and to take up space so that we can stop apologizing and over justifying our thoughts and decisions. She’ll walk us through practical strategies to protect our most valuable resources, our time and energy, and show us how to live with more intention, less stress and more self trust. If you’re ready to defy the hustle culture, silence the noise and start trusting yourself more, then this episode is for you. Let’s dive in. So welcome, Meg. I’m so excited to have you on the podcast.

Nicky Lowe [00:02:28]:
So thank you for joining me all the way from the US.

Meg Trucano [00:02:31]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m delighted to be here.

Nicky Lowe [00:02:35]:
So today, we’re diving into this topic of self trust, which I know is gonna be such a good one. But could you explain what you mean by that concept of self trust?

Meg Trucano [00:02:46]:
You bet. So I actually find that self trust is a little bit of an abstract concept. So I tend to start by defining what it is not, and then we kind of come to what it actually is at the end. So self trust is eroded anytime you place the needs or the wants of another person or an organization like your work consistently above your own. Right? So you kind of erode that sense of self trust. So there are some behaviors that people who really struggle with self trust kind of exhibit, like people pleasing or conflict avoidance or, you know, they they have trouble saying no. They agonize over decision making, and then they when they do make a decision, they tend to overexplain or over justify it. Or, you know, one thing that I found to be pretty common also is kind of that sense of over apologizing, and it starts to sound like apologizing for your very existence.

Meg Trucano [00:03:49]:
You know? So these are kind of the behaviors that you find in someone who is really disconnected from her right to be here and her right to take up space. So self trust really is about regarding yourself as the most important person in your life and your relationship with yourself as the most important relationship that you have. And then from there, you begin to trust yourself with things like making good decisions and pursuing the things that you desire for your life. It’s sort of like a natural extension of that. I It gets so important to say that, you know, this is all well and good in theory, but developing self trust really begins with the belief that you deserve to be here and you deserve good things, and your well-being matters.

Nicky Lowe [00:04:46]:
Beautifully put, Meg. And I’m already imagining people listening to what you’re saying going, oh, I need some of this in my life and probably feeling triggered already. You know, just that sense of being the most important person in your life and putting your needs first. For a lot of women, that can just be triggering to even hear that. So I’d love to hear about actually how you’ve come to do this work. So what’s the journey you’ve been on to specialize in supporting women to trust themselves more? Can you tell us a little bit about your background and and what’s brought you to this point in your work?

Meg Trucano [00:05:28]:
Sure. Yeah. So, for context, I provide psychology based confidence coaching for ambitious women who are ready to take on some kind of significant life change. But getting to that point, you know, my story is very similar to a lot of high achieving women that I know. You know? I was on that kind of, hamster wheel of achievement. Right? Get the good grades. Get get into the good school. Get into the good grad school.

Meg Trucano [00:05:57]:
So I I kinda just followed that track. I got my PhD in developmental psychology, then I got a job, climbed the ladder, and, you know, I kept expecting that when I made more money or had a better title or got that first authorship on a paper, I would feel more fulfilled or like I was happy, and I just never was. So I was pretty unhappy for about 4 or 5 years. And I started working with a coach, and she helped me start a money mindset coaching side hustle. So I was doing that. I was doing my full time job, and I just loved it. Loweved working with these women. And then my coach asked me a question, and it totally totally changed my life.

Meg Trucano [00:06:47]:
She said, how would you feel if you were in this exact same position next or this time next year? And I was like, oh, no. And so that was a huge turning point for me. I, you know, I took some time off after that. Went full time in my coaching practice. And then, you know, after a couple of years of working in the coaching practice full time with money coaching, I noticed that people were coming to me wanting help with their money, but it was never about the money. It was always about wanting to do something different with their lives, and they thought that their relationship with money or their ability to manage their money was preventing them from getting it. But it was actually a lack of self trust. It was an absence of that deep relationship with themselves.

Meg Trucano [00:07:43]:
And so now kind of as an extension of that experience, I help women build their confidence to do what they really want by showing them how to have that deep positive relationship with themselves. And, really, it’s about reclaiming the power of being themselves. And it’s just so delightful, and I I absolutely love what I do.

Nicky Lowe [00:08:09]:
Oh, I could really hear the the emotional journey that you’ve gotten on there. And that question that your coach asked was really powerful, and I’m that’s the we know that’s the power of coaching. But I was really curious about what went on for you in that moment when she asked that question. You know, what would it feel like to be in the same place this time next year? What what was that realization for you?

Meg Trucano [00:08:36]:
Yeah. So I I it hit me like a ton of bricks because I thought, you know, you get into your daily life and you you feel like you are making progress toward a goal or something like that and then life kinda gets in the way, and it it really highlighted for me that unless I did something very directly to change the trajectory that I was on, I was gonna be in that same position in a year, 5 years, 10 years. And we tell we give ourselves all these kind of excuses of why it’s not a good time or why, you know, we need to wait a little bit or wait for the next thing. And it just highlighted for me that, you know, we’re not guaranteed that. So I I really felt compelled that that this was the time that I needed to make that that big change. And, you know, it took me, I would say, about 6 or so months to extract myself from that corporate environment. You know, I had to save up the money. I had to, you know, have conversations with my family about whether this was gonna work for us and and how I was gonna manage it logistically.

Meg Trucano [00:09:51]:
But I was extremely fortunate to have the emotional and financial support from my family and from our savings that I was able to make it a reality. But I think that is testament to the beginnings of self trust. Right? Is that okay. I’m gonna take a bet on myself. And yeah. So that that’s kind of the trajectory.

Nicky Lowe [00:10:18]:
I love that, taking a bet on yourself, and I know we’re gonna dive more into this. So thank you because I feel like we’ve got a sense of what self trust is and and what’s brought you to this place. And I’m really curious about why self trust is so important for women specifically. Can you give any context to that?

Meg Trucano [00:10:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So it’s obviously super important for everyone, but particularly for women. And the reason is that people socialized as women have inherited this social directive to be nice, to be easygoing, to be, you know, kind of above all, not needy. Right? And you start really young and it continues. And you mean you know, you don’t even realize that it’s happening, but you are participating in this. Right? And so so many women have never given themselves permission to feel special, to feel that connection with themselves. And, you know, I find that women are a little bit more at least American women, like the the United States.

Meg Trucano [00:11:29]:
I don’t know if there’s any kind of, like, cultural difference here, but, you know, it’s a lot easier for women in the US to acknowledge that their needs are as important as anyone else’s needs. But when it comes to their desires, that’s when things get really, really fuzzy because they’re like, oh, but it’s just something I want. It’s not something that I need. Right? And so when we do this, we unwittingly cut ourselves off from pursuing what we really want. And when we don’t engage with what we truly want out of our lives, not only do we lose, but the world loses. And I like absolutely, the world loses. So, you know, you it loses out on the contributions we could make, our unique brilliance to make the world just more textured and more interesting. Right? And if you think about you know, I love this example because it’s a a really good illustration of of kind of a, like, a bird’s eye view of of the world.

Meg Trucano [00:12:36]:
Right? Let’s say you’re passionate about stamp collecting. Right? I know nothing about stamp collecting. I’m just using it as an example. But you’re passionate about it. And you might think, well, what is the world gaining by me being passionate about collecting stamps? Well, you know, first of all, it’s important to you, so that matters. But second of all, if you think about it as, you know, the contribution of keeping the art form alive, maybe passing it on to somebody else, you know, to to kind of create that space for this fun hobby to exist. That’s worthwhile. Right? And so, again, I think that is part of the reason that it’s so important for women.

Meg Trucano [00:13:20]:
And and I know we were gonna talk a little bit about why it’s so important for mothers as well, but it’s mostly because women just have never given themselves permission to to have this deep relationship with themselves.

Nicky Lowe [00:13:34]:
And I love how you differentiated that between needs and desires.

Meg Trucano [00:13:40]:
Yeah. And and like I said, the the needs, like, you can kinda understand logically. Like, yes, of course, my needs are the same as, you know, anybody else’s needs and equivalent of importance. But then when you start to talk about desires, well, then that’s changes the game. That sounds like indulgence. That sounds like, you know, like an extra that you put on top of it. But, you know, I would I would encourage people to look at the the change makers in in today’s society, yeah, in society at large. Right? They followed their desires.

Meg Trucano [00:14:19]:
They they had a a deep calling to change something, or maybe they had a deep passion for some sort of concept, and they followed it through. Right? And just allowing ourselves to have those guiding principles will help instill that self trust. Because every time you you engage with that desire, you you show yourself that, hey. I hear you. I hear this desire in you, and I’m listening. And I’m I’m gonna heed it.

Nicky Lowe [00:14:52]:
Yeah. And, actually, my experience is a lot of my clients and a lot of the women I talk to, they actually get confused between their needs and desires. And what I mean by that is that they they fundamentally might tell themselves that this isn’t a need. It’s a desire. It’s not a must have. It’s a, oh, it’s a nice to have. And they actually get confused between their needs and desires. So not only are they not allowing themselves to meet their desires, but they’ve put their needs into the desired kind of bucket as well, and so they’re not even meeting their needs.

Meg Trucano [00:15:31]:
Oh, that that’s so sad for me to hear, but I I can see how that would happen. So do do you have an example of of what that might look

Nicky Lowe [00:15:40]:
like? Yeah. I mean, it could even be things like getting outside for a walk, you know, that fundamental need to move your body. And it’s almost like, well, that’s that’s nice to have. It’s not a fundamental kind of human need or almost like gaslighting themselves around what are their true needs.

Meg Trucano [00:16:02]:
Yeah. And it’s it’s a it’s a really interesting thing to think about is, like, if you honor both your needs and your wants, then, you know, then we don’t have this conversation about, oh, okay. I don’t need to do it, right, because they’re both equivalent. But if you do prioritize, especially if you’ve been in a in a social environment where you’ve been taught to prioritize other people before yourself always,

Nicky Lowe [00:16:31]:
you

Meg Trucano [00:16:31]:
know, I know this happens a lot with some, at least in the US, some, like, deeply religious communities. And this is like a a huge tenet of, some of these religious communities is is, you know, service to others even at the expense of your own well-being.

Nicky Lowe [00:16:50]:
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think that’s that like, we can relate to that in the UK. We call it kind of the Protestant work ethic of it. Like, you work yourself, you sacrifice yourself. And it’s also making me think where I I see some women, and I know that I’ve tripped myself up in this in this journey that if you don’t meet your needs, actually, you start using your wants to fulfill the need. And what I mean by that is you’ve haven’t maybe you’ve been overstimulated during the day and actually what you fundamentally need is just some quiet downtime to, like, reset your nervous system.

Nicky Lowe [00:17:25]:
And because you’re not meeting that need or you can’t for whatever reason, actually, what you then want is the bottle of wine at the end of the night to just try and chill out. So you’re using a want often in a in a really unhelpful way to mask and cover the need that wasn’t met.

Meg Trucano [00:17:43]:
So, so true. And, you know, I think so many things can fill that slot. Right? It’s the wine. It’s the overeating, undereating, exercise, Netflix binging, you know, all of these kinds of things in of themselves are not problematic. But when you you as you say, like, when you use them to substitute what you actually need from a situation. Yeah. Absolutely. And and there again, I think that is the value of having another person or having a coach, for instance, help you understand that this is what you’re doing and that this is a kind of a self defeating behavior.

Meg Trucano [00:18:27]:
And every time you do something like that, you demonstrate to yourself that, like, you are unwilling or unable in some cases to meet your needs, and that’s what kinda chips away at our self trust over time.

Nicky Lowe [00:18:43]:
Yeah. I love that. Thank you for kind of, yeah, framing that so beautifully. I’ve heard you say that the discontentment in the lives of many women is caused by, and I love this phrase, the accidental abdication of their sovereignty. Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by that? So what is sovereignty and how do we accidentally abdicate it?

Meg Trucano [00:19:06]:
Yeah. So very related, to what we were just talking about, but sovereignty means self governance. Right? That’s the definition of it. But I include autonomy and the ability to choose and direct action. So, basically, if you think about sovereignty, you’re the reigning queen of your life. Okay? Your life is yours to govern. And every time we don’t show up for ourselves in the way we want to or for instance, how we might show up for a dear friend. Right? If you think about yourself as, like, a stand in for your best friend, would you would you treat your best friend the way you treat yourself? Right? So over time, again, we begin to lose that feeling that we can control our lives, that we can make change, and this is the accidental abdication of sovereignty.

Meg Trucano [00:20:00]:
It’s kind of a mouthful, but and so that’s a lot of the work that I do with clients is helping them reclaim that sovereignty and to kind of reinstate them as the queen of their own life. You know? And things like keeping firm boundaries and keeping promises to themselves will begin to sort of reclaim that sovereignty and build that back up again.

Nicky Lowe [00:20:23]:
Yeah. And I it’s so beautiful. As you were talking, Meg, I was going back to a picture that my family have got of me, when I was about 5 years old. And we were on holiday and engaged in an activity, and I think the rest of the family wanted to go out. And I there’s this picture of me putting my hands on my hips and stamping my foot, and I literally said, you don’t know the way of my life. And it’s become, something that my family have teased me for for years about, you don’t know the way of my life. And it just made me go, oh, that 5 year old in me clearly had her sovereignty. Like, she knew what she wanted.

Nicky Lowe [00:21:03]:
She knew her boundaries. She didn’t wanna go out at that point. And she was really comfortable to express them and say, you don’t know the way of my life. That’s not what I want. And it just got me reflecting on, like, when did I then lose it? And I’ve now regained it, but I had to do a lot of work to regain it. But I my mind went to, and at what point do we lose our sovereignty, and what does it take to regain it again?

Meg Trucano [00:21:26]:
Yeah. Oh, I love that story. That is fabulous. And I I have, twin toddlers, so they’re 2. And my daughter oh my goodness. Is she ever the sovereign of her own life? And, yeah, you begin to you you’re like, where do you lose touch with that? I mean, I just I think it’s participation in, you know, in in society at large. And, of course, we are working to change how how women operate in society and the kind of expectations that we have of women and, you know, gender roles and and things like that. But, really, it it does.

Meg Trucano [00:22:07]:
It goes back to that 5 year old who’s stamping her foot and is like, no. I I know what’s best for me and what I want. And, yeah, I if we can return to that,

Nicky Lowe [00:22:19]:
I think. Absolutely. So I know that you’ve talked about setting boundaries is a really important part of being able to trust ourselves. And also this point that you make about reducing decision fatigue, which I think so many women listening will relate to that, the amount of, like, mental and emotional load that we hold and the decisions we have to make. So can you tell me a bit more about what boundaries mean for you and how you work with your clients around them? Because we talk a lot about boundaries. And I think sometimes if we’re not careful, people can almost become a bit complacent about the term. So can you kind of give us some context in your sense about what that means?

Meg Trucano [00:22:57]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, again, I’m starting off with what boundaries are not because there are so many misconceptions around what what boundaries are. I really like to define what boundaries are not because, again, I think there’s a lot of misconception around what it means to have a boundary. So boundaries are not a way to control or manipulate another person’s behavior or or to even really change something another person does. It is all about what you will do if a boundary is violated. And there’s a formula for it. Like, I I conceptualize it as an if then formula.

Meg Trucano [00:23:41]:
So if something that I don’t want to happen happens, then here’s what I’m going to do about it. So the other person doesn’t have to do anything. Right? And, you know, just to be clear, it’s no fair setting a boundary and not telling the other person about it. Right? Like, that’s not a boundary because they have to know what they’re getting into. Right? So there’s an example I like to use. Let’s say your mother or your mother-in-law frequently stops by your house to to sort of see the grandkids. Right? It’s unannounced. It’s disruptive to your family’s schedules, and you’ve hinted at and you’ve asked her to call before she comes over, but she pretty much ignores you.

Meg Trucano [00:24:25]:
And so you decide to set a boundary around it. So if you come over without calling or texting first, I will not answer the door or we will not be available for a visit. Right? And so then here’s the important part. If your mother-in-law stops by unannounced without texting, says she forgets, says she you know, whatever, you must show up for yourself at that moment and keep that boundary firm. Don’t answer the door or answer the door and say, I’m so sorry, but we’re not available right now or I’m so sorry, but but now is not a good time. And this is where so many of us cause deep harm to our self trust, right, by being wishy washy around where our boundaries are and and keeping them firm. And this is not to say that you can’t be gentle and kind with the boundary. Absolutely can.

Meg Trucano [00:25:22]:
But the other person might pitch a fit. The other person might think it’s unfair. That’s not your business. What’s your business is keeping your boundaries firm. And another thing that I want to bring up about boundaries is that I find that boundaries with ourselves are also really easy for us to violate. So another example would be, let’s say you want to leave work at 5 PM and get home and have dinner with your family. So you email your supervisor and your team and you say, hey. Starting on this date, I’m gonna be leaving the office at 5 PM or signing off at 5 PM.

Meg Trucano [00:26:08]:
And if I receive anything, any email or any assignments after, let’s say, 4:45 PM, I will attend to it the next day or I’ll get to it first thing the next morning. Right? So that’s your if then formula. And, you know, you’re doing great for 2 weeks and then someone comes in and is like, oh, I really need you to to review this before it’s due tomorrow. You know, it’s 445, but, like, could you please just this once, you know, and there you have a choice to make. You can say, sure. Just this once. You know? I know you really need it. Or you can hold firm and say, okay.

Meg Trucano [00:26:51]:
Put it on my desk, and I’ll review it first thing tomorrow. Or maybe say something like, oh, can you check-in with x person? They might be able to do a review. Right? But more often than not, the bigger culprit for boundary keeping is ourselves. Right? So I’m gonna stay just a little bit longer than 5 PM just to get a little bit more done so I don’t have as much to do tomorrow, that kind of thing. But the beauty of boundaries is that when they’re done well, they are an excellent way to remove excessive decisions from your plate. Because, you know, eventually, you’re not even gonna think about taking on reviewing that paper that evening. You’re just gonna review it in the morning, and there is no choice to make because you’ve set the boundary. It’s the rule.

Meg Trucano [00:27:40]:
Right? And eventually, also, though this isn’t the goal of a boundary, eventually, other people start to respect your boundaries and modify their behavior accordingly. Like, they know they’re not gonna be able to get you to review something if it’s 4:50 PM. And, again, that’s not the expectation of setting a boundary, but it often does happen. And I want the audience to remember that you are always teaching people how to treat you. And if you don’t respect your own boundaries and you keep violating them yourself, staying late, you know, etcetera, others will see that you don’t care about your boundaries, so why should they take them seriously? You know? And if you don’t take your needs and desires seriously, no one else will either, and that’s the foundation of self trust.

Nicky Lowe [00:28:33]:
Oh, it’s so powerful. And as you were talking, Meg, where my mind went to was I recently listened to a podcast interview with a a British journalist called Emily Maiglas. And you may know her name because she came quite famous for interviewing Prince Andrew about his, kind of relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And, in this podcast, she was talking about, at this point in the podcast, about being a working mum and how she hadn’t put effective boundaries in place when her son was younger and in terms of between her work and her personal life. And she’d, as you talked about, just allowed that erosion of her boundaries to the point that she got offered to do a big interview on the day of her offered to do a big interview on the day of her child’s second birthday, decided to say yes to the interview. And she’d got to the point where she basically told herself, he’s only 2. He won’t remember. And she was reflecting he’s now grown up and she was reflecting that that was such a bad decision on so many levels, not only because professionally, she she performed really poorly.

Nicky Lowe [00:29:47]:
She said it’s the worst interview I’ve ever done in my life. She said it just, you know, I looked so, unprofessional. But she said that the erosion of, you know, her self respect and the impact on her relationship with her son because she knew that she had kind of traded work for his birthday. And that’s where my mind went to. As you say, if you’re not used to putting those boundaries in place, you need to build your muscle for when you get that big challenge. It’s can you hold your core? Can you hold your your self trust in that moment?

Meg Trucano [00:30:21]:
Oh, that’s heartbreaking. I oh, I’m just putting my my 2 year old babies in that position and it’s you know, and I know I know women, you know, she was maybe have the option, but I know women all of the time and mothers who have to make that decision when the stakes are just really dire. Right? Like, maybe she could have said no to the interview, but some people don’t have that option. So that I my heart goes out to her. I know I know how I would feel in that in that case.

Nicky Lowe [00:30:53]:
And as you say, you know, we we swim in water that’s, you know, that that is different whether we like it or not to men. And, you know, a man may not have had to make that decision. He, you know, she was a single mother and didn’t have the option of perhaps doing things differently. So it said with absolute compassion for her and I but I just completely get that around how many times do we get challenged and can we hold that kind of boundary with ourselves. So when it really, really matters, we’ve built the capacity to do that. And we mentioned earlier that we’ve talked about women and and there I brought in Emily’s story about being a mother. Why is it even more important, do you think, for us as moms to prioritize our self trust and kind of living in that sovereignty?

Meg Trucano [00:31:41]:
Oh my gosh. Okay. Yes. So practically speaking, I guess, it lets you show up the way you want to for your family. And and as mothers, there are a lot of assaults on our decision making, right, and how we raise our kids. It’s like everything seems to be a thing. Right? And so if you don’t have that strong sense of self trust, which means, like, I know the best thing for my kid, but also and importantly, having compassion for yourself when you goof up, when you make mistakes because you’re going to. No one gives us a a manual when we become a mom.

Meg Trucano [00:32:23]:
So if you don’t have that core of self trust, you’re going to be even more unmoored. Right? You’re gonna be confused. You’re gonna be frustrated. You’re gonna be, you know, basically miserable because you’re taking everyone else’s, interpretations or or opinions about what should be done, and you’re not regarding your own. And no one knows your kids better than you do. So it’s sort of a way to have like, functionally have your own back. Right? So that’s kind of the first reason it’s so important for mothers specifically. But, also, kids are sponges, and what they see us doing, they’re going to emulate.

Meg Trucano [00:33:07]:
So when I think about my own kids, I want them to see a mother who loves them and supports them and does everything possible to make them better human beings, but also has a thriving life of her own, has an inner life that she values and cares about that is separate from them. And I want that so much for them because I want them to know that they can have that for themselves. Right? If they don’t see me modeling that, like, moms can have their own vibrant lives and they can be joyful and enjoy their own company outside of family life or whatever that means to them, then they’ll assume that, you know, oh, mommies don’t get to do don’t get to be alone or don’t get to rest or don’t get to, you know, do things that they enjoy or get to have a day off. You know? So to me, that is that is one of the most important reasons. And the third reason is because you’re a human being, and you deserve to have good things, and you deserve to have a beautiful trusting relationship with yourself. And in some ways, it has nothing to do with being a mother, but, certainly, I think those are the reasons that it’s it’s just a really important part of being a mom.

Nicky Lowe [00:34:28]:
Oh, I loved that. There were so many words there that really kind of struck me and had a real visceral effect, Meg. The fact that you said there are, you know, so many things that having an assault on our decision making, and I was like, yes. That’s exactly how it feels. And that piece about kind of having your own back and role modeling for our children, it reminded me of that Glennon Doyle quote about, you know, our children can only aspire to to as much of we’ve shown them to have a full life. And if we’ve sacrificed ourselves for all good intention of, you know, for them, actually, they can only aspire to the level of sacrifice that we’ve role modeled for them. And that’s not what we’re you know, that may not be our intent, but that’s definitely the impact. So I loved that.

Nicky Lowe [00:35:13]:
And it reminded me only last week I was, had been invited to co host a female leadership retreat. It was in the beautiful countryside in the UK, but it meant that I was gonna be away for 4 days. And my daughter, I she’s like my shadow. She she doesn’t like me kinda going away or kind of being away overnight at all. And the morning that I was due to leave, she was just in fits of tears. Like, I couldn’t stop her crying. And obviously that can trigger so many emotions. And I just what I noticed in myself was the old me would have felt really guilty.

Nicky Lowe [00:35:48]:
The mother’s guilt would have been like washing over me. But I could just hold in that moment and, like, hold her in her upset and kind of hold her in that discomfort, but kinda go, this is something mommy’s really excited about doing. I’m getting to do work that I love that feels really purposeful. And I know she couldn’t quite understand that in the moment. She’s only 6, but that she got the, like, I love you, but I have to have more than the life outside of being a mom. And I thought she may not remember this moment so much, but she’ll definitely remember that message.

Meg Trucano [00:36:20]:
Oh, I love that story. It’s such a good illustration of that tension between that mother’s guilt and and the deep understanding that doing something that is good for you is also good for them even if it doesn’t feel like it in the moment. Like you said, you just held her in her, you know, discomfort, and that’s our job is to is to be with them in that moment of understanding that you know? And especially you know, she’s 6. She’s just really starting to deeply understand that you are a different person and, like, you have different, emotions and needs and priorities than she does as a person. And so that that whole moment, I bet you I bet she remembers that specifically.

Nicky Lowe [00:37:13]:
Yeah. It did make me yeah. Because my mom was a stop at home mom, which I you know, she absolutely loved, and I didn’t see her till much later in my life kind of do the things that perhaps she wanted to do. And I think I’ve had to unlearn some of the absolutely amazing things that she did with all good intention and was an incredible mom, but, like, I need to do it slightly differently. And that’s my sovereignty, and I can I can be grounded in my loyalty, respects, and love for my mom, but still find myself and my sovereignty in that? Oh, I

Meg Trucano [00:37:45]:
love that so much. Yes. My mom was a stay at home mom at the during my kind of, like, early years as well, and then she went back to to work and but she never did what she wanted to do. She she always did what she had to do, and that’s what I had modeled because that’s what she had modeled for her. And I want us as mothers to break that cycle of of this sacrificial mother who who does everything for their kids, but then they end up this withered husk at the end of it where, you know, there’s quite a bit of work that my mom has had to do to be able to enjoy her life after kids. Right? It was it it took something from you when you don’t exercise this muscle as often as possible.

Nicky Lowe [00:38:32]:
Oh, beautiful. So we’ve covered so much, and I feel like I could talk to you for hours, Meg, in all honesty. But if there’s one thing that you want people to take away from this conversation, what would you want that to be?

Meg Trucano [00:38:47]:
Okay. So this is actually kind of a a metaphor, but I think it perfectly summarizes what we’ve been talking about. So imagine you have a best friend, and you’re really close. You make you know, you say you have each other’s best interests at heart. Like, let’s say you wanna get healthy together and you set play dates together and you schedule hangouts and time to really connect. But every time your job needs you to stay late or someone else, maybe in your family needs something, you cancel on her. And you’re demonstrating with your actions that her needs don’t matter as much as your job or someone else’s needs. And over time, she’s gonna stop trusting you, and she’s going to maybe even stop talking to you.

Meg Trucano [00:39:38]:
And this is our relationship with ourselves. This is what it means to erode self trust. So you have to show up for yourself in ways that matter to demonstrate to yourself that you have your own back and that your needs and your desires are, like, important and more important than a lot of other things that are going on that could usurp that position. So what I would like people to really take away from this is that, you know, the things that you want, confidence, power, self assuredness, it all begins with that fertile ground of a deep trusting relationship with yourself. And so when you develop that self trust muscle, then you get these things like confidence and self assuredness that we all you know, we would love to have more of that. Right? So I think that’s what I want people to take away.

Nicky Lowe [00:40:37]:
Oh, I love that. Thank you, Meg. And I’m sure people are gonna wanna find out more about you and your work. So where would you direct them to? And I’ll put all the links in the show notes.

Meg Trucano [00:40:47]:
Yeah. Perfect. I’ve so I have lots of different ways to connect. But probably the best way to connect with me, especially if you resonated with this conversation, is by, joining me on my weekly emails. I call them weekly love letters because I go pretty deep into a lot of these concepts. So I can certainly have the link for that. You can also check out my website, which is megtricano.com, and my Instagram is at meg_tricano, or you can email me and we can have a conversation. That way, I love talking about this stuff.

Meg Trucano [00:41:24]:
So, you know, if you have a, you know, reaction or something struck you, please email me. Please get in touch. I I really love that.

Nicky Lowe [00:41:32]:
Brilliant. Well, thank you, Meg. Thank you for joining me for this conversation, sharing those insights, and also for the work that you’re doing because this is important work, and I love that you’re doing it.

Meg Trucano [00:41:44]:
Thank you so much for having me today. It was such a pleasure talking to you.

Nicky Lowe [00:41:49]:
If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Wisdom For Working Mums, please share it on social media and with your friends and family. I’d love to connect with you too. So if you head over to wisdom for working moms.co.uk, you’ll find a link on how to do this. And if you love the show and really want to support it, please go to Itunes, write a review, and subscribe. You’ll be helping another working mum find this resource too. Thanks so much for listening.