Nicky Lowe [00:00:06]:
Hi. It’s Nicky Lowe, and welcome to the Wisdom For Working Moms podcast show. I’m your host. And for nearly 2 decades now, I’ve been an executive coach and leadership development consultant. And on this show, I share evidence based insights from my coaching, leadership, and psychological expertise and inspiring interviews that help women like you to combine your work, life, and motherhood in a more successful and sustainable way. Join me and my special guest as we delve into leadership and lifestyle topics for women, empowering you to thrive one conversation at a time. I’m so happy that you’re here, and let’s go on with today’s episode. Welcome to this episode.

Nicky Lowe [00:00:47]:
I’m your host, Nikki. And today I’m excited to introduce Rachel Exton. She’s a seasoned commercial leader with a wealth of experience in brand management and marketing strategy. Rachel has worked with some of the world’s most recognized brands, including Dyson, Unilever, and John Frieda. And she’s currently the vice president of global marketing for Pearson’s English language learning division. And I think you’re gonna love this conversation. And I think you’re gonna love Rachel like I did, because throughout her career, she has redefined brand positioning. She’s driven product innovation and delivered like, really impressive results on a global scale.

Nicky Lowe [00:01:31]:
But beyond her professional achievements, she’s a really proud mum of 2, Charlie and Molly. And in this episode, we delve into how Rachel balances her demanding career with family life. We talk about strategies for success in both arenas and the lessons she’s learned along the way. And she’s got some really, really great lessons where it’s gone well and when it’s not going so well, but the gifts that that can give us. So whether you’re navigating the complexities of a high powered career or you’re seeking inspiration to manage your own work life balance, this conversation is for you. I won’t keep you any longer. Let’s dive in and welcome Rachel. So, Rachel, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Rachel Exton [00:02:17]:
Thank you, Nikki. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Nicky Lowe [00:02:20]:
So for those that don’t know about you and your background, would you mind giving us an insight into this kind of really impressive career? When I read your CV, I’m like, wow, because because you’ve got some top tier brands in there. And am I right in saying that you’re now working as a leading global marketing for Pearson’s English language learning division, which I’d not heard of that? So I’d love to hear more.

Rachel Exton [00:02:42]:
Oh, thank you, Nicky. Yes. So I am currently, at Pearson. They are the world’s, lifelong learning company. And I joined them 3 years ago now. And I have to say education was not somewhere where I was thinking I would take my career. Before that, as you said, I’ve worked mainly in FMCG and technology companies like Unilever, Reckitt Benckiser, and most recently Dyson. And I was super happy vlogging stuff.

Rachel Exton [00:03:11]:
I love selling, you know, vacuum cleaners, hairdryers, even disinfectants, as well as green tea. I really loved all of it, but 3 years ago, out of the blue, an ex colleague called me about this job at Pearson. And the more I spoke to the team at Pearson, the more I realized that it really ignited a fire in my belly to do good. I love marketing, and I suddenly realized that I could combine my love of marketing with actually having a more positive impact in the world. And if I was gonna do this for another 20 years, if I was gonna kiss my kids goodbye when mommy gets on a plane and goes away for a week, I really wanted it to be for something that mattered a little bit more than shampoo. And I can honestly say, after 3 years, I still have that fire burning bright. It’s wonderful to be able to apply my marketing skills and, you know, a profession I love to actually being able to help people realize their dreams of studying, working, or moving abroad. So, yeah, a big career change for me 3 years ago, as I said, moving into the education world, but I honestly haven’t looked back.

Nicky Lowe [00:04:22]:
Oh, I love that. And what I’m really hearing is that almost purpose driven leadership around, actually, as you say, if I’m getting if I’m gonna kind of be traveling, it’s gotta it’s gotta be meaningful to me, and there’s gotta be a purpose behind that that feels really worthwhile, and I love that.

Rachel Exton [00:04:38]:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I’m not sure if it is being driven by, I don’t know, entering into my mid forties. I don’t know if it was a bit of the COVID effect. Yeah. But as I said, it’s really captured my head and my heart now, and I’m very happy at Pearsond. I love the work that we do.

Rachel Exton [00:04:57]:
I love the team. I love the culture. I love the mission. But if for whatever reason I ever do decide to move on, it will definitely still be in this space of purpose driven. I don’t think I can go back to just selling shampoo again as much as I love shampoo.

Nicky Lowe [00:05:12]:
Yeah. But what I’m also kind of curious about is, as you say, you’re you’re a woman in your kind of forties, but that’s had this phenomenal career trajectory. Can you give us, like, a bit of an insight into how you’ve got to this point in your career, and at what point did children enter the equation?

Rachel Exton [00:05:31]:
Sure. Yeah. So I started my career at Unilever, and I will always be great for for my time at Unilever. I was on their graduate scheme. So I joined the mark as a marketeer, but for 2 years, you actually rotate around the business. So as well as marketing, I also did a sales role. I even did a supply chain role. I spent 2 weeks at the pot noodle factory with a hairnet on.

Rachel Exton [00:05:55]:
They saw a saw sachets in. It was an absolute scream, I have to say. And alongside that rotation, we also attended the Unilever Marketing Academy, and it really was like doing an MBA in marketing. I still get the, the folders out now, and it’s over 20 years ago, and still use what I learned. It was just such a masterclass in excellent marketing. So I love the training, but I also love the ability to rotate around the different functions as I think to be a great marketeer, you really have to understand and work well with product, with sales, with supply chain. You know, if you are dreaming about turning a pot noodle pink, it has big implications for the factory. And by spending 2 weeks there and seeing it with my own eyes and speaking to the people, it just meant that I could be so much more collaborative and actually get things right first time.

Rachel Exton [00:06:52]:
So really loved my time at Unilever. And 5 years in, I decided it was time for a move. Not because I wasn’t enjoying it, I really was, but I was only in my early twenties and I just wanted to see what else was out there. It was my first job after university. But I decided that if I was gonna move, it had to be for the right thing because I knew I was onto a great, great company with Unilever. So if I’m really honest, I thought, right, what am I passionate about? So I’m a big believer that as a marketeer, you should be able to market anything. Our job is to climb into the skin of our target audience and deeply understand them. But really, Nikki, it’s so much more fun when it’s stuff that you like.

Rachel Exton [00:07:36]:
So I was like, well, what do I like? And at that time, it hasn’t changed that much now, but Rachel in her early twenties liked fashion, she liked booze, and she liked beauty.

Nicky Lowe [00:07:48]:
Yeah. I can relate.

Rachel Exton [00:07:49]:
So that’s where my kind of search started, and I have to say it taught me the power of the network. Because through friends of friends, I had the most unbelievable people take time out to speak to me. I spoke to a buyer at Harvey Nicks. I spoke to a marketeer at, Topshop, and there were many more opportunities. And I have to say, I always do my best now. It’s hard when your life is busy, but I always do my best to kind of help people out if they reach out to me because I really believe what goes around comes around. So, yeah, the power of the network is amazing. And I ended up at John Frieder.

Rachel Exton [00:08:24]:
I mean, it was an amazing 2 years. I was just marketing to myself and my friends. I really, really enjoyed it, but I learned a lot because I went from a big FMCG company to John Frieder, which had just been bought by KAO Brands. They own Molton Brown, Gold Wow. So they’re a big beauty brand, but it was only just so John was still really present. And so we worked a lot with John. We did a lot of PR, but it was a small team. So one minute you were doing strategy, the next minute I was photocopying.

Rachel Exton [00:08:58]:
You know, you did whatever it took and I loved it. And I would have stayed, but I fell in love. I met my now husband and we did like a year and a half long distance relationship and we decided that we’re gonna make take the plunge and move in together. And he was based in Cheltenham, which is actually where I grew up. I never dreamed I’d come back to this part of the world, but it kind of made sense. And so I started to look again for a job thinking, goodness, I’m committing career and social suicide leaving Lowendon. What am I doing? And I managed to find a job with Rickett and Keizer. At the time, they were based in Swinburne, and I was like, oh, this is amazing.

Rachel Exton [00:09:42]:
I get back go back to my FMCG kind of homeland, which I loved. But Rickett and Keizer was quite different to Unilever, but in a really positive way. At Rick at Benckiser, I learned to become a commercial marketer because as marketing, you run the business unit. So I reported my numbers to the executive team every month, And it was great because I have to say, and I think I speak to a number of marketeers who can feel this way, you kind of sometimes feel a bit nervous about the numbers, but actually, there’s nothing to be nervous about. A p and l is just about adding and subtracting. You know, we can all do it, but it really gave me that confidence, and it showed me the power of numbers and how with the data, you can really influence change. You can grow your marketing budget. You can elevate the role of marketing to be a strategic business driver when you’re putting revenue, gross margin, profit, ROI on the table.

Rachel Exton [00:10:46]:
So I yeah. Really grateful for my time at Record B and Kiesa for kind of really kind of making me feel comfortable being a commercial marketeer. And then the next move was to Dyson again, not because I would have stayed with Wreck It Benchesa, but they moved from Swindon to Slough. So I did a year living in a hotel off of a Slough roundabout, and it just really wasn’t long term doable. And, you know, me and my now husband had set a wonderful life in Cheltenham, and we wanted to continue it. So I thought there’s no way I’m going to do it again, like, you know, find another fantastic job outside of Lowendon, but the stars were obviously aligned, and I got sent the Dyson job, which was, yeah, super exciting. Although, I mean, a lot of my colleagues at the time, Erica Venkys, were like, really, Rachael? You’re leaving FMCG and you’re going to a b to b role because the role at Dyson was for its hand dryers. I don’t know.

Rachel Exton [00:11:51]:
I always go like that. I always do the hand movements, which is when you put your hands in the hand dryer. And I was like, yes. And they’re like, are you crazy? And I’m like, no. This is an amazing opportunity. And why I was so excited is when you work within FMCG, you work on these big global brands which have been established for 10, 20 years. And what I found is when you kind of took over as a brand manager or marketing manager, you’re handed almost like a metaphoric suitcase of, this is how you do the marketing for this brand, and you get to kind of shape it around the edges, but the success model is already in place. Whereas what excited me about the dice and roll is there was no suitcase.

Rachel Exton [00:12:41]:
It was a complete blank piece of paper, and I was being brought in to build the suitcase, which was terrifying and exhilarating all at the same time. Yeah. And I loved it. I didn’t always get it right. We had some spectacular failures, but, you know, we got there. We really built the success model within the b to b space. And I found that b to b is no different to d to c. You’re still marketing to humans.

Rachel Exton [00:13:07]:
It’s just instead of Nikki in your mum capacity, I’m talking to you as Nikki in your career capacity. You still have hopes, you still have dreams, you know, you still have worries, and you need to understand those to be able to sell to you as a professional as well as a mom, so the skill sets are really quite similar. And the good news for me is I managed to grow with Dyson. So, I was there 11 years. I couldn’t believe it in the end. I’ve had 2 babies along the way. So I had Charlie who’s now 11. I can’t believe I dropped him off at senior school this week, which was like a big moment.

Rachel Exton [00:13:46]:
I had one

Nicky Lowe [00:13:47]:
that started there as well this week. I’ve got an 11 year old, so I feel you.

Rachel Exton [00:13:51]:
How did that happen? I mean, I’d like to say that I’m not a hugely sentimental person, but I have to say, Nikki, I don’t know about you. It really hit me. I had to after he left, I, like, you know, walked into school. I had to sit there for 5 minutes and really just compose myself because it was like, it only felt like yesterday I was carrying him home in my arms, and now he’s so big. But he’s wonderful. It’s, you know, it’s what’s meant to happen and then to grow up and get independent. But, yeah, it was a moment.

Nicky Lowe [00:14:22]:
I feel you. I think this, for me, has been the biggest transition, like starting nursery, starting school. I was okay with that, but this transition, I think, yeah, there’s a it it feels like a massive one. I think I feel like my son’s ready, but I don’t know if I am.

Rachel Exton [00:14:35]:
No. Yeah. It’s very true. It is very true. And it changes, the dynamics for the whole family. So I’ve got daughter Molly as well who’s 7, but I can remember when Charlie started primary school, it completely changed our routine, and I kind of feel like the same is happening again. So, yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s a really big moment, but best of luck to your son. I hope he enjoys it.

Nicky Lowe [00:14:58]:
Likewise to Charlie. And I’ve loved hearing that story. I’ve got to say, I love your energy, Rachel. I can I can I can see and hear why you’re so successful in the in the work that you do because I can see the passion that you bring? And I’m obviously working for, did you say, 11 years at, Dyson?

Rachel Exton [00:15:17]:
11 years, yeah, at Dyson.

Nicky Lowe [00:15:20]:
You in an in a in a company and a brand that is so well known for innovation and creativity. And I I’m work with so many organizations where that’s a real key area for them. Like, how do we drive innovation? How do we how do we build teams that that do that? And what did you learn from that time and what have you taken into perhaps now at Pearson?

Rachel Exton [00:15:47]:
Goodness. Well, look, I am still learning myself. So, like, you know, I’m 20 years into my career and I’m still learning every day as the world we live in now is changing so much. But I think probably through my time at Dyson, I kind of really learned three things around how to get to great innovation. I think the first is all around deep customer insights. You’ve got to keep digging. Quite often, I excuse me. I recently judged them b to b awards, and one of there was loads of fantastic work, but one of my observations were their insights were quite shallow.

Rachel Exton [00:16:25]:
They kind of only asked why once. And for me, it’s like, you’ve gotta keep on going. You’ve gotta really go deep to understand the things that people wouldn’t readily admit to you. Because great marketing, I think, is like holding a mirror up to somebody. And for you, Nikki, going, how the hell did you know that about me?

Nicky Lowe [00:16:45]:
You had my mind. Yeah.

Rachel Exton [00:16:48]:
I wouldn’t ever say that out loud, even to my best friend, but somehow this brand has understood it, and they’re showing me that they can help me solve it. So it’s really, really kind of digging deep into customer services. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Just don’t stop. And there’s loads of really interesting ways you can do that. Market research is, like, kind of moving on all the time. There’s, of course, one to one interviews and focus groups. But but I used to go and spend time in people’s houses, which might sound a bit weird, but it was wonderful watching them live, especially when I was working in the floor care category in Dyson. I was responsible for APAC.

Rachel Exton [00:17:26]:
I’ve never lived in Korea, you know, I’ve never grown up in Korea, so how am I meant to know, you know, what innovation is right for them? But by going and spending time in their houses and seeing how they live and how they interact with each other, it’s a great way to get really, really deep. So understanding your customer and consumer is a big, big one. I think the second one is trying to understand trends. I can remember a case study back at university, which one of my lecturers kind of shared with us. So I think this shows the power of how teachers can inspire you, but it was about Henry Ford and the car. And so everybody at the time were in horse and carriages. And if you went and asked a customer back then, you know, how can we improve this? They would be like, make faster horses. They would have never dreamed of the car.

Rachel Exton [00:18:19]:
So you’ve got to be on the pulse of trends, of technology, to understand where it’s going so you can capitalize on it and deliver things that we haven’t even dreamed of. I mean, who thought when I didn’t have a phone until I finished university, this is showing our radar, no, it wasn’t Google. I used to have to do research on microfiche and I would never have dreamed of Google, but, goodness, what are our kids going to be experiencing in their lifetimes? And it’s be being able to tap into those trends and those technologies and really be able to almost kind of see the future, which is hard, but it’s really important if you want to try and leapfrog with your innovation. And then I think the final one is about bravery. I think you have to be brave and take a leap as a company, and not all are gonna work. So you’ve got to be able to fail fast and move on. But again, there was a famous story when, I was at Dyson, which James told regularly, about when he designed his first vacuum. And he really became famous because he

Nicky Lowe [00:19:27]:
showed you the dirt inside the vacuum cleaner. You know, there was no bag, and

Rachel Exton [00:19:28]:
when, he put it cleaner. You know, there was no bag, and when, he put it into market research, it absolutely bombed. Everybody I wasn’t there at the time, but, apparently, everybody was like, oh, that’s gross. Why would I want to see my dirt? So if James had listened to the market research, it probably wouldn’t be the company it was today, but he was brave to listen but decide to ignore it, and he did it anyway. And you know, now it’s one of the most loved features about the Dyson. The competition has copied it everywhere. So with market research, I always kind of say to my team, we absolutely listen, but then it is our job to choose what we action and what we say thank you very much, but we’re gonna be brave and do it anyway. That was a good story.

Nicky Lowe [00:20:24]:
And I didn’t know that about kind of the Dyson Yeah. Kind of story as well. But thank you for that. So, obviously, you’re a big advocate and champion for working parents. I thank you for everything you do because I’m gonna encourage people to follow you on LinkedIn because you’re a really powerful voice in this area. So I’m keen to hear from you what life is like for you as a working parent, and, actually, how do you do the notorious balancing act?

Rachel Exton [00:20:53]:
Well, I do it better some days than others, Nikki. And I think that’s the main thing is there is no magic wand and there is no right or wrong way. It’s very personal for every person and every family. You know, everybody’s relationship is different with their partner. Everybody’s child is different and they have different needs. So I really wish I had a magic wand, but I don’t. Also, it’s been really hard, I’m not gonna lie. You know, I’ve had, as I said, times when I think I’m winning and times when I just wanna, you know, cry in a corner because you kind of think I just can’t I wanna be the best mum, I wanna be the best wife, I wanna be the best daughter, the best friend, but I also wanna be the best employee and the best manager, and it’s just impossible.

Rachel Exton [00:21:39]:
And, you know, sometimes something has to give. So my main thing is, I would just say to people, is be kind to yourself. Nobody’s acing it, even if on the surface they look like they are. You know, we we all have times when it works and times when it doesn’t, so don’t beat yourself up. But I think the couple of things I have done is, you know, I’m lucky I’ve got a really kind of supportive husband, you know, he does the school run twice a week. I do it twice a week. We try and kind of share it out kind of between us. I also have my mom and dad close by, which is like a godsend.

Rachel Exton [00:22:14]:
You know, they’re always on hand. I’ve built an amazing group of mommy friends and all I can say is, you know, I just love it, women supporting women. There’s nothing better, really. And the amount of times I had to pick up the phone and go, I’m gonna be late, just go pick up, can you grab mine? And I will happily do the same. Immediately for me because I work full time. I find sometimes it’s difficult to do in the week, but I always try and try and do stuff on the on the weekend if I can. Like, let me take your 2 on the weekend because, you know, I can’t always do the school pickups, but I’m around on a Sunday afternoon. Let me take your 2 out for you to kind of return the favor and kind of keep that wheel of mother money love going around.

Rachel Exton [00:22:54]:
I love that. I’ve also so, I’ve done a mix of nursery, but now we have a child minder, and oh my god, Julie is like, thank the Lowerd for Julie. She’s so flexible and so kind, and it’s like a home away from home for my kids. And I love that because they love being with Julie as much as they love being with with me and and with Matt, and they feel really comfortable. So it’s kind of, I think, a mixture of all of those things, which have really helped me. But as I say, it doesn’t always work and sometimes it comes crashing down. At the times, I’m like, I am acing. So, yeah, it just depends on the day.

Nicky Lowe [00:23:34]:
And I love your honesty there because I think that is so relatable. And every time we think we’ve got it nailed, something changes or, yeah, one of the one of the plates drops. But I I also love that you’ve intentionally and give real power to your support network. And I think so many I think it’s more of a female thing. We we feel that we’ve gotta be the strong, independent, can do it all super women. And almost there’s a shame attached to needing support, asking for it, paying for it. You know, it almost makes us not as capable, but it absolutely isn’t the case. You know, we weren’t ever meant to do this alone, were we? So

Rachel Exton [00:24:16]:
Yeah. And I think some of it comes from the fact that we grew up in a generation being told we could do it all. You know? I read the Gracias. I read the Marie Claire’s, and it was all about, you can do it all. You can be a career woman. You can be a great mom. You know? Go, go, go. And it’s just not true.

Rachel Exton [00:24:33]:
You know? You can’t have it all. Something has to give. And that is very personal to each person, so you just gotta find your own way, yeah, your own way of doing things, really. Right. Don’t put pressure on yourself. It’s easier for me to say, than do sometimes, but, but yeah. And I would just say don’t be afraid to ask for help either because sometimes I felt, oh, no, I can’t ask that mum again to pick up my fib. Yes.

Rachel Exton [00:25:02]:
Yeah. You know, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. But you know what? You can. And I never mind being asked, so I’ve got a bit better at saying yes as well. Yeah. And as I said, I always try and repay that favor, in some shape or form. It might be babysitting or a Sunday when I’m not kind of like Monday to Friday, like, for me.

Rachel Exton [00:25:21]:
But, yeah, just don’t be afraid to say yes. People wouldn’t offer if they don’t mean it, and I think, yeah, it’s really important to do that.

Nicky Lowe [00:25:29]:
Brilliant. And you’ve talked about you know, you work in a very, very demanding roles in quite high pressured industries. I’m wondering what have been some of the challenges you’ve had to overcome over that time, particularly as a working parent.

Rachel Exton [00:25:42]:
Oh goodness. Well, goodness. There’s been, you know, so many challenges along the way. I think kind of too immediately stands out. So I think I’ve always I’ve been very lucky. I’ve always worked for really understanding kind of employers. I’ve always been able to get that flexibility. Admittedly, though, they’ve given me flexibility because I’ve always delivered, but it might be, outside of normal working hours.

Rachel Exton [00:26:13]:
So for me, for example, I always finish at 3 on a Friday because for me being at kind of school pickup at least once a week is, like, really important and it’s sacrosanct. I will not miss that. But quite often after we’ve had a play date or something on a Friday, the kids have had tea and they’re just, like, kind of flopping on the TV, I’ll grab the laptop out and I’ll catch up. So it’s wonderful to have that flexibility. But at times, I suppose at times, sometimes I kind of feel that maybe some of the team don’t quite understand what it takes to, like, you know, when you’re on a business trip, I kind of rock up. And before I’ve got on that business trip, I have had to sort out 5 days worth of childcare. I have put meals in the freezer. I have packed kind of gym kits.

Rachel Exton [00:27:00]:
You know, I’ve almost done, like, you know, double the work just to be there, and then people and I feel terrible saying, like, maybe some of the guys on the team or people without children just kind of sworn in. Some of them, like, you know, absolutely, I feel like I made it. And I just think it and it’s not it’s not because they’re, like, you know, unkind people and they don’t get it, but it’s just when you’re not in it.

Nicky Lowe [00:27:25]:
Absolutely.

Rachel Exton [00:27:25]:
And if you don’t work with other people in your team, which are working moms, you just don’t get it. And it was the same for me, to be honest with you. My best friend had kids probably 5, 6 years before I did. I just didn’t get it. Like, you know, I’m like, why can’t you come to the pub? You used to come to the pub. And so it’s a little bit like that sometimes at work if you’re in a team where people might have a stay at home partner, they might not have kids. They don’t always understand, like, yes, I I really, really want to be in Lowendon for an 8 o’clock meeting, but that means I’ve got to get a 5 o’clock train and I’ve got 2 kids to get to school. Mhmm.

Rachel Exton [00:27:59]:
And it’s it’s hard sometimes. I feel I don’t always want to have to say, I can’t do it because I’ve got to take the kids to gymnastics. I can’t do that because I’ve got to take my kids to school, but it’s just part and parcel of my life. So that’s kind of been a bit of a challenge in terms of kind of balancing that. I suppose probably one of the biggest challenges is when I went back to work after my second baby, Molly, who’s 7, so not a baby anymore. And at that point, when I was on maternity with Molly, my husband had got a new job, and I was so happy and really wanted to support him. Charlie was starting school, and I was like, how am I gonna make this work? I’m gonna have to do a nursery drop off, a school drop off, and, you know, take on more myself because of my husband’s new job. How am I gonna do all of this? And it just felt really intimidating.

Rachel Exton [00:28:51]:
So I spoke, to Dyson and said, look, should I come? I want to come back 3 days a week, kind of temporarily. And they were really supportive of it, but I couldn’t come back as the director. I had to take a step down. And that was tough, if I’m honest with you, Nikki, because she worked so hard and I couldn’t help but feel that my brain hadn’t changed. You know, my ability hadn’t changed, but, you know, as with my circumstances had. So it was really hard, and it felt like a real tummy punch, if I’m honest with you, and I had quite a few discussions with friends fueled by wine. What should I do? Should I stay? Should I go? I feel like I’m taking a step backwards. Anyway.

Rachel Exton [00:29:38]:
I decided to go ahead with it, and it was, a move, actually, out of marketing as well. It was into retail training. I remember saying at the time, I was, you know, thinking about retail? I didn’t know anything about training. But they said, but, Rachel, you know Dyson and you’ll be fine. And you know what, Nikki? Although, I did have to stay take a step down to head off, I learned so much. What it actually kind of taught me now, reflecting back on it, is sometimes in your career, taking a sideways step can be really beneficial. I’d always just been climbing that marketing ladder. I’m an exec, then I’m a brand manager, I’m a senior brand manager, and I just wanted to keep going up.

Rachel Exton [00:30:21]:
That was like my vision, if you’d like, from when I started at Unilever. And what I learned through this experience is by going sideways, it can really help give you a trampoline to go back up that ladder at the right time. And I think without babies, I would never have thought to do that, but I learned so much, which I could then bring back into marketing. And so if I could speak now to the younger Rachel, I would probably say to her, don’t be in as much of the rush to go up the ladder. Think about going naturally because actually, it will help you get to your end goal faster and probably make you better at those most senior roles because you have a more rounded experience.

Nicky Lowe [00:31:05]:
I love that. Reminds me of the Steve Jobs, speech that he gave at a university where he said you can’t join the dots looking forward. You can only join them looking backwards. And at the time, something doesn’t make sense when he got kicked out of Apple and ended up at Pixar. But then when he came back into Apple, the technology brought back in from Pixar and all of those different pieces. And at the time, it doesn’t make sense. But I love that because as you said, it was a trampoline for you even though it felt like I imagine that your career was derailing at that point just because you’d chosen to start a family.

Rachel Exton [00:31:36]:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. I quite like the analogy with Steve Jobs. I’m gonna take that, Vicky.

Nicky Lowe [00:31:40]:
I’ll send you the link after this. It’s a brilliant it’s a brilliant, it’s a brilliant commencement speech he gives at, I think, at Stanford University. Oh, there’s so much more I could ask you, but I’m really conscious of your time because you’re an incredibly busy woman. I’m wondering what else would you like to tell my listeners because, as I say, you’re such an advocate for working parents and an inspiring role model about what it takes and the journey that you’ve been on, and I really appreciate your honesty and and the and the stories that you’ve told. What would you tell perhaps another woman who’s listening to this interview that may be kind of early in her journey as a working parent and is in that place where, as you said, how am I gonna manage this all? I’ve got nursery drop offs. I’ve got, like, the demands of my role, and I I wanna show up for my family. What would be the insight you could share?

Rachel Exton [00:32:33]:
Oh goodness. I I would say don’t give up. If it’s what you really want, and it’s not for everybody, I think it’s okay as well to tap out if it’s not what you want. Because I’ve spoken to people who, you know, are desperate to come back to work and then just spend the whole time at work missing their children. And I just like, just go back to them, like, you know, there’s nothing wrong with saying, actually, my outlook has completely changed. And I think that’s wonderful and it is like so recognize it. But if you have decided that, you know, no, you know, you want to try and make it work, I would just say don’t give up. Really don’t give up.

Rachel Exton [00:33:14]:
There are gonna be hard times, especially when they’re young. I can remember coming back and as soon as you put them in nursery, they get all these weird and wonderful, like, diseases. Like, I never heard of hand, foot, and mouth, slap, cheek. What the hell is that? They all get it, then you get ill, and it is just really, really hard. It just feels like this is ever going to end. But I think, you know, make sure you put yourself some nice holidays. Don’t be afraid to put yourself first. Like, you know, I remember when we were going on holiday and we put Charlie, like, you know, on holiday, in a creche for a couple of hours, and some people kind of questioned, oh, but you work full time, and don’t you want to spend time with your child on holiday? I’m like, well, of course I do, but I can only be the best mum if I get some rest as well.

Rachel Exton [00:34:00]:
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I would just try and prioritize yourself, whether it is, as I say, a holiday with a little bit of respite because there’s a kids club. Maybe I occasionally take a Friday off and just go and have a spa day. The kids are in school now or in nursery, but it’s just a little bit of time for me because I think you’re a better mom and you’re a better person if you can just invest that little bit time in you. And it is really hard because I think you, as a mother, full stop, but then as a working mom, you cut you you come at the bottom of the pile. But try and put yourself first every now and again and create those little moments where either you on your own, you and your husband, you and your mom, or you and your friends, and you can just go and be go and be you, and forget about work, forget about the kids, and and invest in you a little bit.

Nicky Lowe [00:34:48]:
I love that. And I can see because your energy is infectious, and I imagine that’s part of your leadership brand and part of what’s made you successful in your work. But to be able to maintain that level of energy doesn’t come by chance, I’m imagining, particularly if when you’re not working, you wanna give energy to your family. And the fact that you are really conscious and intentional about and I’ve gotta recharge that because everybody needs a bit of it, and I need to fill it up so that I can do the things that I love with the people that I love. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rachel Exton [00:35:18]:
No. I’m normally in bed by 9:30.

Nicky Lowe [00:35:21]:
I feel like we’re kindred spirits, Rachel. I really do.

Rachel Exton [00:35:26]:
It’s a really rock and roll here. I’m in bed by 9:30. I feel

Nicky Lowe [00:35:31]:
like I have the sleeping pattern of a toddler. I wake early and I go to bed early. My 20 year old self would, like, just be head have a head and arms in shame.

Rachel Exton [00:35:41]:
I know. It’s completely the reverse, isn’t it? It’s so funny how it turns full circle. I’m I used to be in bed till, like, 1 o’clock in the afternoon, and now ping, 6 o’clock I’m wide awake.

Nicky Lowe [00:35:54]:
Well, thank you. And if people wanna connect with you, where would be the best place to do that?

Rachel Exton [00:35:59]:
I think LinkedIn is is really the best place. Yeah. It it’s been wonderful, to and I do my best to try and respond to everybody who gets in contact. It’s, bear with me. It’s not always kind of easy trying to do it, on top of everything else, but I, I get real inspiration and real energy from, you know, if I can just have one other kind of working mum, then for me, that is, yeah, that makes me feel really good. So it’s a real win win. So, yeah, please reach out. Loweve to love to interact with everybody.

Nicky Lowe [00:36:34]:
Brilliant. And I’ll put that link into the show notes so people can click through and and connect on there. But thank you, Rachel. It’s been lovely speaking to you and hearing your story and your insights.

Rachel Exton [00:36:44]:
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Nikki. Stay in touch. Take care. Bye bye.

Nicky Lowe [00:36:49]:
If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Wisdom For Working Mums, please share it on social media and with your friends and family. I’d love to connect with you too. So if you head over to wisdom for working moms.co.uk, you’ll find a link on how to do this. And if you love the show and really want to support it, please go to iTunes, write a review, and subscribe. You’ll be helping another working mom find this resource too. Thanks so much for listening.