Nicky Lowe [00:00:07]:
Hi, I’m Nikki Lowe and welcome to The Wisdom for Working Mums podcast show, where I share insights and interviews that support women to combine their family, work and life in a more successful and sustainable way. Hi, and welcome back to another episode of the Wisdom for Working Mums podcast show. I’m your host Nikki Lowe and today I’m bringing you behind the scenes in my business to introduce you to my online business manager and wingwoman, the amazing Lauren Fenn Ellis. And I’m so excited for you to hear from Lauren directly because she’s had a really profound impact in my business and in my life. And the goal of this episode is to help you step up and be the CEO role in your life and work so you can have the impact in the world that you want to, which is what Lauren has done for me. And I need to take you back about two years to understand the journey that I’ve gone on with Lauren and the impact she’s had on my life back in 2021. It was a brutal year for me and you may have heard me talk about this on my podcast before, but it was one of the most challenging personal years I’ve had in my life ever and I hope I never have a year like that again. From in the January our house getting COVID and then me having to do home learning with the kids. To then my son having an accident that meant he was in plaster up to his thigh and in a wheelchair for a while and just basically me having to care for him and carry him to the shower and carry him to the toilet. To then my dad getting ill and dying two weeks later. Literally the punches just kept getting thrown at me and I’m a resilient little thing. I might be small, but I am mighty. And I kept picking myself back up and trying to push forward. And as a business owner, it meant that I only had nine weeks across the whole of 2021 when I could focus on my business, get in flow and get work done. So just nine weeks and at that point in my business I was doing everything myself as a true solo entrepreneur doing the front of house stuff. So I was doing my client coaching, training, speaking and client management right through to the back end stuff of producing this podcast and really keeping the wheels turning in the business. And it was brutal trying to do that all on my own while trying to navigate all that personal stuff too. So towards the end of 2021, I decided something had to change. And a friend of mine who runs her own business, Helen Reynolds Style, who you may have come across through my work, had been sharing with me that she worked with her own online business manager, and it had transformed her business and the way she worked. So I took inspiration from Helen, and I actually found my business manager, Lauren. And in this episode we’ll share how we connected and the stars aligned and it was quite serendipitous and we’ll go into the impact that Lauren’s really had on my life and work and it has been transformational. So, just to give you some context, Lauren’s background is she’s a corporate European business manager and now she’s turned into an international online business manager and COO so, chief operating officer. And she partners with conscious entrepreneurs and brands to scale their dream businesses with bespoke strategies, systemization and high level management. And if you listen to the end, what you’ll hear is Lauren oftens to share one of her systems and you’re not going to want to miss that. It’s a free download, it’s a holiday packing list. I know it might seem simple, but for somebody like me that doesn’t naturally have those kind of systems in place, it’s really useful. So listen in and you can get hold of that. And Lauren has not only made things happen in my business with more ease, but it’s enabled and empowered me to really step up and be a CEO, not only in my business, but in my life too. And I wanted to share some of that journey with you today. So even if you don’t have your own business, I have no doubt what Lauren shares, you can learn and perhaps be inspired from listening to her. There’s a saying that if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together. And I’m so grateful that I get to go on this journey with Lauren, so I won’t keep you any longer. Let’s introduce her. So, welcome Lauren. How exciting to have you on the podcast show that you’ve been involved in for the last couple of years behind the scenes, but to have you at the front of it is just a real joy. So thank you for joining me.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:05:06]:
Thank you for having me. I’m super excited for our conversation today.

Nicky Lowe [00:05:10]:
Yeah, me too. So if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell my listeners a bit about yourself? Like, where did your kind of career start? What did you do before you became part of the wisdom for working Mums team? And actually what do you do now in terms of your work and in my business?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:05:30]:
Yeah. Okay. So I spent eleven years in corporate, initially starting out as a temporary receptionist in financial services. And I basically grew up in that company into the role of European business manager. And that’s when I really started to learn about business operations, business acquisition, remote working project and event management, managing insurances, ISO standards. And those projects were then when I really dove into setting up new procedures and new processes for businesses across the EU in the same company. And I was also responsible for office fit out and relocation projects. So we would review the lease agreements and then we would determine whether it’s worth signing again. Otherwise we would serve the notice and we would find a new office, build it from scratch, transition hundreds of people into a new office and put the other one back to scratch. So that’s what I kind of did for eleven years in corporate. And I absolutely loved it as well. I did really, really love it. But then it got to a point when I was like, is that it? Is this it? Is this what I’m doing now for the rest of my life? I had an opportunity to take redundancy and that’s what I thought was the best option. Today. I was like, you know what, I’m ready for a new challenge. I’ll take the redundancy, pack it and I’ll get a new job. But I actually couldn’t get one because I was too overqualified on all these different areas in business. So me and my husband now, we got married and then we spent 16 months traveling across Asia and Australia. And it was then when I was wondering, what am I going to do next? I don’t think I want to go back to corporate. What else could I possibly do? And I landed on the book Online Business Manager, where I was reading my career so far. And it was a no brainer to switch into that role and transition into the online space. So whilst I was traveling, I was diving into systems, I was learning about the market, different industries, business marketing in itself, online, what does that look like? Email marketing, all the things. And then we came back just after well, just as the pandemic was starting. And that’s when I launched my business. So that was about 18 months before we start. We found each other and started working with each other. And now I’ve just recently launched an agency business with other online business managers who get to support the clients that I don’t have the capacity for because I only take on a few clients now because of the role, how it’s very strategic. It’s high level team management, operations management. It’s quite a big role to have in somebody’s business. So taking on any more personally for me any more than three clients is quite a lot.

Nicky Lowe [00:08:37]:
Yeah, totally get that. And what a journey you’ve been on. I didn’t know that you’d started as a receptionist, actually. Imagine what an incredible receptionist you would have been. You would have been like on steroid receptionist. That’s amazing. Kind of alluded in the introduction to how we came to work together and we talk about the stars aligning, don’t we, for kind of our journey to come to work together. And I’d mentioned in the introduction how this had come about, was in 2021 when I had that brutal year. And I was talking to kind of a friend and business colleague of mine, Helen Reynolds, and she’d been sharing the behind the scenes in her business and how she had an online business manager. And I know we’ve used that term a couple of times, and we will come on to describe what that means if people aren’t completely familiar with it, but she was talking about how she had an online business manager in her business who was phenomenal and had transformed the way she worked, and her name was Lauren. And when I was in that depth of that brutal year, I’d Googled like, Lauren online business manager, and your name had popped up, and I just assumed you were Helen’s Lauren, and so kind of reached out and we connected that way, didn’t we? And it turns out you weren’t.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:09:57]:
Nick is Lauren.

Nicky Lowe [00:09:58]:
Yeah, it was an even better fit. So I always thank my lucky stars that that kind of connection came about.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:10:08]:
Yeah, it was amazing, wasn’t it? I loved it. Yeah. Gosh, when I think it’s so long ago now. I love our story. Thank you for a fantastic website set up that brought us together when you Googled me.

Nicky Lowe [00:10:23]:
Yes, gosh. Yeah. But I wonder if we can perhaps reflect back to where I was two years ago, because the whole point of this podcast is really taking people on the journey that you can go on in your life and your work to really step up. And when you have the right people around you, how that enables you. So I thought it would be really kind of useful just to go back and reminisce on kind of where I was in that process and I suppose what you experienced when you connected with me, about me and my business. Because obviously, I think I contacted you in the October of 2021, and I was kind of like ten months into this brutal year, and I was a few years into running my business and just realized that I couldn’t continue to do it all myself and something had to change. But I suppose what were your reflections on where I was at that point?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:11:19]:
Yes, I don’t think I knew how brutal that year had been for you at that moment. Obviously, when we first spoke, I think you might have mentioned a couple of bits, but you don’t really get to understand until you’ve worked together for a little bit longer. But understanding that you needed some more time to be able to do the things and the way that you were working wasn’t serving you in the smartest way and things like that. And we actually initially agreed on a ten hour retainer each month. Now, the retainers that I previously worked with were 20 and never experienced a ten hour retainer. Now, because of so many different business areas that an online business manager can operate, can manage, can have so many eyes on moving pieces. When we did that first initial strategy session, it was like, okay, these are all the things that you need. These are all the things that you want to do, and this is the time that I’ve got to help you support that. And after the first month, we realized that we needed more time. I needed that 20 hours retainer to actually bring that impact into your business because it almost felt like we were delaying your success.

Nicky Lowe [00:12:40]:
That’s such an interesting reflection, Lauren, because I’d forgotten about this and that is a really interesting point for anybody listening. I think you kind of made it very clear that you only really work with people under 20 hours contract. And I think I was at that point where I’d never invested in my business in terms of hiring other people. So that felt a massive leap and I thought, I don’t think I can afford it, I don’t think I can justify it almost this, I don’t think I’m worthy of having that investment in me and my business. So I put to you, didn’t I, that I don’t think I can do the 20, but I could do the ten. And I think that’s just interesting in itself because literally within a month, we both went, no, we need the 20. And how I’d made that shift in that month and it still felt scary and it still felt like, oh, my God, I’m going to make this big investment. But it just was like, it’s not something I need to do in the future, I need to do this now.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:13:35]:
And that was the first month in November, and then we had December, so obviously you were taking time off for Christmas and so was I. So I think we continued with the ten hour in December. We really hit the ground running with a 20 hours retainer from January. And yeah, the things that we were able to kind of turn around and build within that for the next I think it was a couple of months, I think was it maybe two or three months before we then brought on that first team member?

Nicky Lowe [00:14:07]:
Yeah, and that’s really interesting reflection. So, yeah, the fact that I didn’t feel like it felt really scary to have somebody come alongside me, and I think it was scary for a number of reasons. One, like, just the financial investment about investing in myself and the business in that way, but two, around, oh, God, I’m going to have somebody with eyes on my business. And what if they look at it and go, what the hell is she doing? There’s a business. I think there was that of like, I’ve got to step up now because it’s not just me and I can’t kind of hide away and squirrel away. And I think that’s probably what you had seen about what I was doing. I was doing so much in my business, but trying to do it all myself with very little systems or processes. So I was very much flying by the seat of my pants. Things were done very last minute, which were putting me under a lot of pressure because I’m somebody that likes to although I can work under pressure and I do work under pressure, and if I’m left to my own devices, I probably do that. The anxiety that creates in me of not having kind of things under control just has really taken its toll.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:15:26]:
Yeah. And that is an interesting reflection of stepping up in that role in your business. And it’s like, this is a serious business. We’re really taking this that step further. And as much as I can do that and I can help in the operational areas and all that kind of stuff, it does require my clients to step up as well. So that’s also a really interesting reflection perspective as well.

Nicky Lowe [00:15:59]:
And did you look at my business and go, oh my God, did it give you anxiety with how I was running it? And I’m imagining I’m not alone when you kind of connect with potential new clients, I’m not alone. But what were your reflections on kind of where I was at at that point in my business?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:16:19]:
I mean, that’s so funny. You’re not the first person who said, oh my God, you’re going to see this and you’re going to see this, and it’s all scared for somebody else to see their work. And I actually don’t see it like that. My mind kind of goes into like, oh my God, I know what I can do with this when I’m taking it. And I thrive off that. I thrive off it being chaos or a complete mess or nobody knows what they’re doing and there’s no systems, there’s no processes, there’s no structure, there’s nothing. I love that because the transformation in that is huge and bringing that impact into somebody’s business and life is just massive and that truly lights me up.

Nicky Lowe [00:17:04]:
So I think it’s probably worth saying if we take this podcast as an example so I’d been running the podcast for what, four years? No, it wouldn’t have been that long. Three years maybe, when we started working together. And so in that there was me trying to map out when I was doing podcasts, who I’d be interviewing. I’d be contacting the guests, I’d be putting in all the calendar invites, I’d be sending them out the podcast notes beforehand. And all of that was held in my head. I’m not naturally organized, but I am so well conditioned to be organized. But I’ve either got lots of different to do lists everywhere that don’t get tracked and then I rewrite them and think, oh God, I’ve lost one where’s that? There was no process. It was all in my head. And actually, I think I’ve got a high capacity to do that and I’d coped doing that for a long, long time. But now, looking back, I think, oh my God, how was I doing it? Because the systems and processes that you’ve put in around just if we as I say, we take the podcast, for example, we now are booking kind of globally renowned guests and they’re going, oh my God, we love your process. We’ve never come across a podcast that is this well organized. And I’m like, I go, thank you, but I can’t take any of the credit. That’s my team, because it is. It’s you and the team that we’ve built that made that happen. And I now look back and go, how was I doing it without that?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:18:34]:
Yeah, it really is a fantastic process. And even when for me, a podcast is almost like a business in itself within a business. So the fact that you have been managing it for so long on top of all my client work, that’s just superhuman because there’s so many moving pieces to it. You’ve done a fantastic job, but now we’ve really leveled it up and we’ve freed you from having to do all of that. Like, you literally come in and prepare.

Nicky Lowe [00:19:08]:
The questions and tell me when I need to do that by like I get told in our project management system, you need to prepare this person’s notes by this day and get them back to us. And for anybody listening, because not everybody out there has got a podcast and not everybody listening has got a business. But I think that piece of the mental load that we hold and all of the stuff that we’re trying to get done often we’re ambitious, we’re driven, we’re conscientious, and we’re holding so many pieces of that jigsaw of our life together in our head or on postit notes or on the back of a fag packet, as they used to say. And it happens, but it happens probably with more stress and more flying by the seat of the pants than is necessary or even healthy. So that’s kind of why I wanted to get Lauren on to talk about this, because it’s not only up leveled me in my business, but I’m applying this in my personal life as well. So what I thought might be useful at this point, Lauren, is obviously we’ve talked about you being an online business manager and actually, in your work, you walk alongside business owners like me to become, like, their COO, like their chief operating officer, so that they can step up and people like me can step up into our roles as CEO. Can you share actually what that means? Like, what is an online business manager? You’ve alluded to it already. And how do you see yourself as that COO?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:20:41]:
Yeah, and I think you’ve touched on this as well. And it is a skill to take everything out of a client’s head and then make a project plan and get all these little bits and bobs that you don’t have to remember anymore and put them into a project management tool so it tells you when you need to do the things. But as part of the relationship. Like you said earlier, it is really about learning how to let go of control, let go of control of your business and some of the tasks that you’ve always done that you think only you could ever do. Really letting go of that and delegating that to a team member and trust is such a huge point like trusting somebody with your business and that they’ve got your best interest at heart and that they are holding it to the highest of standards just like you would. So like for me, my clients’businesses, I treat them as if they were my own. So there’s a trust for mean.

Nicky Lowe [00:21:47]:
We’ve had situations, haven’t we, Lauren, where I’ve got high standards, but sometimes when I’m overwhelmed, I will go like I’ll make a call and go, look, that standard. I’m going to drop a couple of percent because I just haven’t got the bandwidth. And you’ll go, no, we’re not dropping the standard. I’m going to pick that up and hold it to the standard that we are committed to. And so you treat it even more as your own business. Like you challenge me and go, no, we can up level even further, let’s hold ourselves accountable to that vision and that high standard.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:22:25]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s where then that partnership comes in where you really are working with somebody in partnership and sharing the workload front and back. Normally I’m managing the back end of the business with the team and everything and you’re working on the front end. So it does really require us to partner together to manage the business and.

Nicky Lowe [00:22:49]:
So we’ve talked about the team there but we probably haven’t given people insights into that. So I started working with you at the back end of 2021, and you really got into my head and into my business to understand strategically what I was trying to achieve, where we were at, what the vision was, and what were the moving parts. And the idea then was that we were going to create this team of what we call people in their zone of genius, don’t we? We’re like we will hire people that are really good and put them where they thrive. And again, that felt really scary because I was like, oh, my God, I’m not just hiring Lauren, but I’m hiring other people in the business. And oh, my God, I’m now, like, properly Even though in my corporate career I led teams doing that in my own business. The Mindset shift on that was pretty significant. And we’ve ended up creating what we call our dream team, don’t we? We constantly refer to ourselves like Morning Dream Team on our little kind of voice note. We use something called Voxer to talk most days and it’s like a walkie talkie piece of software, isn’t it? And we call ourselves a Dream Team because we’ve created this team around us. But you’ve enabled that to happen and I think I would not have been able to do it without you and I don’t think it would be as a high performing team as it has been without you. Thank you.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:24:06]:
Thank you. But also, you are the backbone of this because we can see the way that your work weaves into even the culture of the business, like the culture and the environment that you’ve set the standard for. That the permission that you give us and the empowerment that you give us to do the tasks that we are responsible to do and all that kind of stuff, as well as permission giving when we are going through different stages of the month, things like that. So you’ve really created that safe working environment and a cultivated culture where we’re all connected and like you said, checking in with each other just been like what we got up to at the weekend. It’s a beautiful balance. And that really, for me is that leadership piece that clients step into when they do have a team.

Nicky Lowe [00:24:58]:
And I think something that I’ve just reflected on, as you said, that is like, we very clearly sat down, didn’t we, when we were looking at building out the team of what’s the culture, what are the non negotiables, how do we want people to feel, what do we expect in terms of values? And then went and hired people that fitted the job spec and could be in their zone of genius. But it’s interesting, as you were talking, what I was reflecting on was one of my things is I have a really high independent streak and it serves me brilliantly, but when it’s overdone can mean I become like, I fly solo too much. And I think I’d really develop that muscle in my business that I can turn my mind to most things, I’m adaptable. I’m a quick learner, so if something needed doing, I could somehow find my way to do it. And what you’ve really taught me is, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. That’s not necessarily the smartest thing. It’s the hardest thing. My work ethic is pretty damn good, but again, for anybody listening is just checking in with yourself. Like, how much do you rely completely independently in your work? Where are there people? Because I didn’t even think I needed a team. I would call myself an ambivert in that I can do really extrovert. But I really like my own company. I don’t need people around me. So I know some people that are like, oh, my God, I’m really missing a team element. I wasn’t necessarily feeling that, so I didn’t think that I was going to gain that side of things from hiring a team. But, oh, my God, I love it. I love our little check ins.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:26:41]:
It’s amazing. We love it, we all love it.

Nicky Lowe [00:26:45]:
But I think what you did in that process was you helped me pull together a job spec you went out and helped hire the people I empowered you to. Like you said, leave it with me. I will go and find the candidates. We interviewed them together. You did the whole onboarding process. Like, we had this amazing again, it made me look so professional in a business. We had this onboarding process where they got welcome videos. They got videos teaching them how to do all the different things in the business you created. SOPs which if people aren’t familiar with is stunning operating procedures that says basically when you’re picking up the task, this is how you do it. But we empower people around that to improve and add on to it. But what that’s meant is that if we’ve got a member of our team that’s off ill or on holiday, another team member can come in and just pick up the SOP and know exactly what they’re meant to be doing with no kind of they can watch the videos. Like the handover of that is really smooth.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:27:41]:
Yeah, it really is. And yeah, the onboarding process is fantastic because it just gives everybody, anybody who comes into the business, it gives them everything that they need to learn and know about the business which then frees up your time from having to tell them what we’re all about, what’s the services, what’s the process, all the things. We can put that into an onboarding process and they go through that on their own. They can spend the time going through and learning about business and their role and their responsibility and at the end they get to book their kickoff call and that’s when we really start to kick off and we can just dive straight in. So yeah, that frees up so much time but also welcomes somebody into the business.

Nicky Lowe [00:28:24]:
Yeah. And it’s consistent, isn’t it? They all have the same consistent kind of employee experience. And again, I would never have thought of putting a process or procedure around that. I wouldn’t have thought I would have been hiring that many people. I wouldn’t have thought of it as a repetitive task that could be automated. But where you’ve brought automation into my business like, that has literally been life changing for me. And as I said, our work together has not only focused on my business but has also had an impact on me personally. And I know you’re big on this in terms of mindsets and habits and outlook and I wonder if you could give some insights into that, like how you see the world because it’s like second nature to you but I think the way in which you see the world is still really unique.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:29:16]:
Yeah, I think when I think back to when I was in corporate I kept my work and my personal life so separate. Like I never blended them together wanting to see anybody in corporate outside of work personally. And I would never bring my partner to meet anybody. From work, I kept it so, so separate and now I don’t see it like that. And I don’t know whether that’s just because I’ve got my own business, but this could also encourage other people to do that who might not have their own business and they’ve got their own job where we don’t have to see it separate anymore because usually when we’re at work, we might have a team supporting us there. So why can’t we have somebody supporting us outside of work in his personal lives with cleaning or ironing or shopping or anything like that? Yeah, I just think we can see them as two separate entities, but we can also utilize what we would normally do and have at work in his personal lives.

Nicky Lowe [00:30:27]:
And I think that is so true. The amount of my clients that I work with that really step up into their leadership when they’re in their organizational setting, even if they kind of work from home and do hybrid working, they’re very clear that when they’ve got their work hat on. I build a team, and I delegate, and we have a plan and we’ll have objectives and we might have a team charter, but then when they come to their personal lives, all of that gets left to the side. And I know that was a really big case for me. And part of this stepping up into the CEO of my business, but also my life is like actually having that clear communication on what’s the expectations, whose role is what the fact that I’ve built a team, that I’ve got a cleaner, I’ve lost my ironing lady, but I’m currently in the process of kind of recruiting a new one. And I did go through I slipped out of my kind of empowered mindset and was like, oh, I can do it myself. And then I was like, what are you doing? Even if you had the time, is that a good use of your time? And the answer is no, it’s not for me and for other people it might be. We’ve got a gardener. And I went through I’ve had to go on a really interesting journey with this because when I first started hiring people in my personal life, I was quite ashamed of it because I was like, oh, people are going to think either I’m not capable, I can’t look after my home or I’m not the Mrs. Hinch. Or they’d think, who the hell does she think she is? Some kind of celebrity with an entourage? And it took me quite a long while. I’ve had a cleaner for probably 20 years now, different ones over that time, but it’s been a really important part of how I function personally. But the early days, the shame that I carried around, that was really untrue. And actually one of my goals in my work is that I can have a housekeeper that I have come in three times a week that is like my kind of twelve month goal that I can hit a certain revenue target that can justify me doing that because it would just make my whole life so much easier. But again, I have to manage the mindset of God. It’s only celebrities that do that, isn’t it? Like, who does she think she is? But so many of my clients I’ve high achieving women in business really struggle to hire a cleaner or I was talking to a client actually last week and she’s got a huge global role. She’s the main earner in her family and she has a cleaner come in twice a week and her cleaner has gone off on long term sick and she was having this internal battle of I want to be loyal to my cleaner because she’s been with me for so long. But also she was struggling. She’d spent all weekend cleaning and tidying her house and doing all the domestic load and it had really taken it out of her and stepping up into that. I can still be compassionate to that individual that’s off sick. But just as in a business environment, you would need to get somebody in to cover that workload. We slip out of that mindset somehow when it comes to our personal lives and as you said, it’s putting yourself back in. Like if I can do this in an organization environment, it’s just as important that I do it in my own home.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:33:43]:
Yeah, absolutely. I love that, Nikki. Yeah. Being able to see it from those two perspectives, I think yeah. Fantastic. And just even like the things that it then allows you to know, having these people support you personally and professionally, what does this now look like? So I know for you, Nikki, one of the things that you said to me when we first started working together was like, I want to stop working late nights. And that stops you want?

Nicky Lowe [00:34:12]:
Absolutely. And it’s really weird because energetically, even if I want to, my body won’t let me anymore. And I don’t know if something’s changed, whether Perimenopause is here or whether my body never coped well with it and the fact that I stopped doing it has just gone brilliant. That boundary is never going to be crossed again.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:34:32]:
Yeah, that’s amazing.

Nicky Lowe [00:34:34]:
But I think what you’ve taught me is this mindset. It’s almost like what’s the mindset? And how do you then put the habits around it that really step you up into that? I’m up leveling in my life and business, what does that look like and what are the habits that would support me? So I think you’ve made me a lot more like it’s taken me a while and I still don’t do it perfectly. But we run our business by a project management tool, don’t we, Asana? And you’ve just really kind of helped me recognize rather than hold it in your head or on bits of paper, drop it in asana. It means mentally, you let go of the energy of having to hold it and hold when it gets done. And everybody then can see everybody else’s workload. So we’ve got an understanding and can do kind of capacity management. And it means stuff gets done when it’s meant to get done.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:35:30]:
Yeah. Also, I think that was one of the things that we noticed as well when we initially built it out. It was like, okay, let’s create you a personal space as well. So all the personal things that you’ve got to do as well as all the work things. And then earlier this year, we actually created a separate Asana for your personal stuff. Again, this becomes that mindset shift of we’re so inundated with notifications and technologies these days that you were seeing a list of work stuff that you needed to do, but then you also could see stuff that needed done personally. And it’s like, oh, which one shall I do first? But actually separating those allows you then to take back control and you can then go, right, okay, I’m going to do some personal stuff for an hour this morning. And you go into that personal Asana platform or you’re like, right, okay, I’m getting ready and I’m going into work now. I’m going to open my work platform and I’m working on that only today. So splitting it, I think also really helps.

Nicky Lowe [00:36:30]:
And that boundary. Absolutely. So, as we said, not everybody listening will run their own business. So when we’re sharing these insights, what can this mean for people in terms of translating it into their everyday life? What are some of the things that you do now in your personal life? Maybe you’ve done them for a lot longer than most people would have done. But we can give examples. Like the example that pops into my head is we were having a conversation, weren’t we, this week about festivals. And Lauren loves to travel the world. She took six months out traveling over winter, still running a business, but running it from overseas. You went to Central America, didn’t? So you are used to traveling. You attend a lot of festivals. And we were talking about, I’d gone to a music festival and I was like, oh my God, I came back dehydrated, I didn’t drink enough water. And you were like, oh, I always have in my kitlets and electrolytes. And you’d got this whole and you didn’t realize it, but you’ve got a system and process for like, oh, this is the stuff I take with me when I go to a festival, just to make sure I’m at my best. And I was like, oh my God, you’ve got a SOP for festivals? And you were like, oh, yeah, I do. I never realized that. So I think you do this stuff really naturally, but could you help us translate what that might be for somebody listening?

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:37:46]:
Yeah, that was such a funny conversation because it’s so ingrained in me, it’s automatic. I’ve done it for as long as I can remember. And I think it’s from my dad. My dad was always like about the five P’s and he was like, make sure that you’re organized and get things done ahead and all that kind of stuff. That’s really been a journey that I’ve been on that’s just supernatural and has obviously helped me in the role that I played throughout corporate and then where I am now. So yeah, I think having the packing list, for example, we don’t need to recreate the same thing that we need to do on a regular basis. Like going to a festival. Just in my iPhone Notes app, there’s a packing list. And in there, there’s a packing list for a festival or going to a hot holiday and then going on a skiing holiday or going camping. And it’s so funny now saying this out because this is just something that’s so natural for me. And I just copy and paste one of those packing lists into a new note and then I edit from there. And it just allows you to just prepare in advance. You can use it as a checklist. You can have be running out the door and you remember something and it’s like, oh, I’ll just pop it on that list for next time. I’m even always updating the list.

Nicky Lowe [00:39:09]:
Yeah, you do that with our SOPs because we’ll change something in the business and I won’t think and you’ll go, right, we need to add that into the standard operating procedure so it makes sure it gets done next time. And I’m like, oh yeah, that’s how your mind works. And I love that.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:39:24]:
Yeah. But one of the other things I have been aware of is how about can you be too organized? That’s always a question I always ask myself. Because in theory, when you are planning ahead and you’re preparing and you’ve been organized and because this leads to everything that I do, I think I might have become quite addicted to organization to a point where I wasn’t living in the present moment. I was constantly living in the future. So something that I’ve had to learn to tone down and just really adapt certain situations. But the packing list, absolutely, we can all do that. That’s something that we can do, like meal prepping, I think is a really fantastic way to stay healthy and make sure that you’re eating and getting your nutrients. That’s something that I do every Monday now and I’ve meal prep for the entire week because otherwise I will get into my work and I won’t move away from my desk and I won’t eat the same with exercise. I will plan out what I’m doing all week. I’ll check the weather. If the weather is rubbish, I’ll go to the gym. If it’s not, I’ll get on my bike and go out and just having that plan for the week in terms of exercise and food, helps me stay fit and healthy, which then obviously helps me in my business at my best as well.

Nicky Lowe [00:40:45]:
Yeah, and it’s just those little things that I think, as you say, just become part of your routine. And I think what you’ve really helped me think about is what can be eliminated out of my business. And either am I doing things that really aren’t returning the value. So have I just got into the groove of doing it without and you almost do it, you’re on the treadmill and you’ve helped me question, why are you doing it? And is it having the impact that you want? If it’s not, can we just eliminate it? And simple things like by automating we’re eliminating me doing things over and over again. So some of that is just about an automation, but some of it is also about delegation. And you constantly saying to me, what’s on your plate that somebody can take off you? And it stops me in my tracks because again, I just get into doing mode and I don’t question, oh, actually, does this really need me to be doing it? There’s certain parts of the business that can only be done by me and that’s very much the front of House. So my coaching, my training, my public speaking, running workshops, I can only do that but actually really challenging myself on what can other people be doing that I can let go of and how do we do that? And as you talked about as well, just simplifying, even just as we said, splitting up my personal and business tasks, because as you say, I could see those together. And that meant that my work and kind of home identities were constantly kind of in conversation with each other, like, oh God, yeah, that needs doing and oh no, but that needs doing and they both need doing. But assigning time where I’m like, okay, I’ve got my personal hat on, let’s think through the task there. Okay, put the professional pat back on. Now, I think has made a huge difference.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:42:34]:
Yeah. And I think even when we did the finances the other day, finding a process that makes that really easy because I think that’s probably one thing that what I’ve seen is that can get quite out of control. So making sure things are on direct debit, do you need to be manually paying things every month? And one thing that I make sure that we do is we have that payment date coming out on the first of every single month instead of staggered over the month, little things like that, because you just know where you are and where you stand with everything. So, yeah, like with our finance process, Nikki, you now then just screenshot or forward it into a slack channel, which is a communication platform. And then the team take that and pop it into the financial spreadsheet and upload it to a folder. And that’s already in prepped for when you come to do your books next year. So it’s these little changes that we can make that work for you as well as what we can take off you and lighten your load.

Nicky Lowe [00:43:35]:
I just feel incredibly grateful that as horrible as that year was, it forced me to take a long, hard look at how I ran my business. And if I hadn’t have done that, the stars wouldn’t have lined and we wouldn’t have connected. And just what you’ve done for me and my business, Lauren, I will forever be grateful for. It’s an absolute joy to work with you. But this podcast isn’t just about singing your praises. It’s really about getting people to think about if we were to take a Lauren mentality in our know where, could we be stepping up as a CEO who can help us as be the chief operating officer in our life? And it might be that we’re lucky enough to be able to hire somebody like a Lauren, but maybe it’s putting ourselves into that operator mentality and going, where can I be streamlining? Where can I be making my life easier? Where can I be automating? And I know that’s difficult when we’re caught up on the treadmill of life, but when we can create that space, make the time to think it through and think about who we want on our dream team, it literally just revolutionize. I can’t even begin to share the impact that’s had over the last two years.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:44:52]:
Yeah, that’s amazing to hear that reflection. And I think, yeah, there’s so many things that we can do. I think sometimes we need to have a look at our time and see what do we value the most. If you’re running your own business, then there’s so many different things that you could be doing, like revenue generating activities. So then it’s good to hire a team to take off some of the admin tasks or managing the processes or managing the team so that that does free you up to be able to create new products and services and all that kind of stuff. And then in a personal life, it’s like you said, some people might like cleaning, but I know a lot of people don’t. So you could be doing something else that could even just be an hour to yourself, or it could be going to see the kids in a play, or it could be anything. It’s whatever it is that you then value. And time is non renewable. So an exercise that we do in business is looking at what our hourly rate looks like. And obviously you can do this in your job, or if you’re not at work and you’re going back to work, what does that hourly rate look like? And could you look at getting the cleaning done in spite of having that hourly rate paid? That’s one way that you can look at it and I think sometimes that can help us get perspective. Absolutely.

Nicky Lowe [00:46:25]:
I don’t know, we’re on 50 quid an hour but actually it cost us 15 pounds an hour to hire a cleaner and the differential is what you’re getting back in terms of your time and the cost saving. And it’s interesting because I was talking to two clients recently and they secretly almost shared with me that they would love to have a personal assistant but not necessarily in the business, but in their personal life. They’ve got demanding careers, but they’re also carrying that invisible load of all the kind of domestic mental load. And to have a personal assistant, so virtual assistant that could come in a few hours a month and just help. Them think through, like we’ve got plan the holiday or kids birthday parties or all of the stuff that traditionally has fallen into the gendered norm role of the woman, but with a high powered job and all the demands of being a mum as well, they were really struggling with. And so I challenged them in their coaching sessions. That what’s stopping you. And there was almost this mentality of like I shared earlier, oh, I’m ashamed that I would even be thinking that. But when they’ve given themselves permission and one actually went out and hired a PA and it has been phenomenal for her. They were doing a big house renovation project, they were moving into rented accommodation. She’s primary kind of flex point in the family and a demanding global director role and just being able to give herself permission to have that help was huge for her. And it might not be that you’re in a position to financially be able to afford this. But thinking through with perhaps friends have you got somebody who’s like the moniker to your Rachel who naturally is really good organizer? And you can say, can I borrow your know, can we get together over a glass of wine? And just talk me through how you plan for your holidays so it feels more easeful. And there’s a process.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:48:24]:
I think, just having that other person as well. So professionally, just like you said to talk through. Okay, what do we need to think about before we go on this holiday? Just having that person to just brainstorm only need like 15 minutes and then they can go off and do the research for you. Do you a packing list? All the things, get the insurance? Yeah, I think it’s super valuable.

Nicky Lowe [00:48:47]:
I’m wondering Lauren, you can say no to this. I’m wondering if we could put together as a freebie download a packing list.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:48:58]:
Let’s do it. Absolutely. I’ll just copy and paste and send it.

Nicky Lowe [00:49:02]:
Let’s do it then. Yeah. If people are interested, we will put into the show notes where you can get that download because I know I want to see what Lauren’s got on her packing list because I bet there’s stuff that I haven’t even considered and it’s been held in my head. Like, I was so impressed with myself, Lauren, the other day. I was like, do you know what? I haven’t got like, a first aid kit that I can take on holiday. Every holiday I’m like, oh, have I got Cowpol, have I got plasters? And I was like, I’m going to put together a kit. So I did it for our last holiday and now it sits in the boot of the car when we’re not on holiday, just in case we go to, I don’t know, park and the kids fall over. I’ve got it there in the boot. And then when we go on holiday, it just gets packed and I’m like.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:49:46]:
Oh, my God, I feel like Lauren, I love that.

Nicky Lowe [00:49:51]:
I was like, that doesn’t come naturally to me, but then when I do it, I’m like, God, that’s just common sense, surely? So I just thank you for what you do for me, my business and my life. I feel incredibly blessed to have you on my team and have you as my wingwoman, Lauren. And thank you for coming on and sharing your insights with oh, thank you so much.

Lauren Fenn-Ellis [00:50:16]:
Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for being an amazing client. I also feel super lucky to get to work with you and support you in the work that you get to do as well.

Nicky Lowe [00:50:27]:
And I hope people have gone away from this conversation just thinking about how they can step up more into that CEO role in their life and give them really yourself permission to do that. Because it’s the mindset shift that then creates that cascade of things that enable us to be more supported in our life and really step up into our potential. So I’ve loved introducing you to Lauren and for you getting to hear all about her and the impact she’s had on my life and I really hope it’s inspired you on how you can embrace that CEO role in your own life and work. And don’t forget, if you want to get hold of that freebie download the holiday packing list. You can head over to Wisdomforworkingmoms co UK 1114 so wisdomforworking Mums Co UK 114 so just 1114 and you can grab it there. Thanks for listening and until next time, take care. If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Wisdom for Working Mums, please share it on social media and with your friends and family. I’d love to connect with you too. So if you head over to Wisdomforworkingmoms Co UK, you’ll find a link on how to do this. And if you love the show and really want to support it, please go to itunes, write a review and subscribe. You’ll be helping another Working Mum find this resource too. Thanks so much for listening.