Nicky Lowe [00:00:06]:
Hi. It’s Nicky Lowe, and welcome to the Wisdom For Working Mums podcast show. I’m your host. And for nearly 2 decades now, I’ve been an executive coach and leadership development consultant. And on this show, I share evidence based insights from my coaching, leadership, and psychological expertise and inspiring interviews that help women like you to combine your work, life, and motherhood in a more successful and sustainable way. Join me and my special guest as we delve into leadership and lifestyle topics for women, empowering you to thrive one conversation at a time. I’m so happy that you’re here, and let’s go on with today’s episode. Ever wish you had your own private chef at home? Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:00:50]:
Me too. Imagine though if that chef could be your child. Today, we’re diving into a topic that’s close to my heart, creating a healthy relationship with food for our families. As a busy working mum, I know how hard it can be to prioritize cooking nutritious meals amidst the chaos of daily life. But I also know the power of food, not just as fuel, but as a way to nurture, connect, and create lasting memories. Growing up, my mum was an incredible cook who hosted the most amazing dinner parties for our neighbors. And as a child, I loved helping her in the kitchen. It was our happy place.
Nicky Lowe [00:01:32]:
But as a working mom myself, I often struggle to bring that same joy and connection to my family, kind of kitchen and table, because limited time and drained energy, it can feel like a real challenge to inspire my children the way my mum inspired me. And that’s why I’m so excited to welcome today’s guest, Allegra McFady, MBE, to the podcast. Allegra is an award winning chef, broadcaster, and author of the brilliant new children’s book, Chefs Wanted. This inspiring book empowers young chefs aged 7 to 11 with the confidence and skills to whip up delicious dishes from around the world, packed with step by step recipes, hilarious illustrations, you’ve got to see it to believe it, and Allegra’s expert tips. It’s the perfect way to turn kids into capable kitchen helpers and foster a love of healthy food. You may know Allegra already because she’s the co founder of Leon, the iconic fast food chain, or as the author of 8 acclaimed books. She’s also a seasoned broadcaster, having co hosted CBBC’s Step Up to the Plate with Fred Cyriax. She’s judged the BAFTA winning Junior Bake Off and appeared on BBC 2’s Economy, Gastronomedy and The Great British Food Revival.
Nicky Lowe [00:02:58]:
Through her work on screen, radio and in print, Allegra has inspired countless families to embrace the joy of cooking. And in 2008, Allegra was awarded the MBE for her extraordinary contributions to the hospitality industry, promoting healthier eating and ethical sourcing across the UK. And as a mom of 2 daughters, she really understands the juggle of work, motherhood, and trying to prepare nutritious meals that bring the family together. And in this episode, I think you’re gonna love it, Allegra shares her background about how she’s worked in Robert De Niro’s restaurant in New York, but returned back to the UK and started cooking meals, even though as a Michelin trained chef, in her local community center, making sure that families and local communities had access to good food, but for many. And she shares that, actually, it was her own mom’s death when Allegra was only 17 that really fueled her love of being in the kitchen and nurturing her family. And in this episode, Lequen not only shares with us all the amazing recipes in the book, but practical ways we can inspire our kids to become more confident little chefs making cooking a joyful family affair and bringing more connection and creativity into our kitchens. It’s definitely inspired me. I hope it inspires you.
Nicky Lowe [00:04:23]:
So grab a coffee and get ready to enjoy the delights of Allegra and turn your home into the hub of culinary magic. So welcome, Allegra. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. No.
Allegra McEvedy [00:04:37]:
It’s a real pleasure to be here, Nikki. Thank you for asking me.
Nicky Lowe [00:04:40]:
For those that don’t yet know about you and your work, can you take us on the journey around kind of being an award winning chef, broadcaster, author? Can you take us back to where
Allegra McFadyen [00:04:50]:
it was started? How long you got, Nikki? I’m an old cow of the business now. I mean, I guess it it all started, and that’s relevant to to the to the book that we’ll talk about. In the kitchen, when I was a kid, yeah, that’s when I really fell in love with food. It was me and my sister. My sister was always in the garden, and she’s turned into a bit of a horticulturist. I was always knocking around with our our mum, you know, just with my fingers in the flour bowls or licking the batter, you know, doing a bit of rolling. And I just I always found the kitchen my happy place. A bit like when you’re a teenager going to parties.
Allegra McFadyen [00:05:21]:
Yeah. The kitchen has has always been sort of the center of of of of, I don’t know, my my happiness and the home for me. So I guess that was literally where it started, the journey. And then, sadly, my mom died when I was 17, and my dad was of a generation who, you know, could just about boil an egg, but that was it. And my sister was off at university. So, I mean, it wasn’t like I I had to and I was, you know, sort of tied to the stove when I got back from school, but I I I liked cooking. And at a time where I was incredibly sad, cooking gave me pleasure, so I used to make dinner. Really, really rubbish dinners.
Allegra McFadyen [00:05:59]:
I have to say, well, my dad’s followed some of them. I don’t even know. I remember making him, duck a lorange with a whole load of orange juice once. It was actually pretty disgusting. But, you know, I had a go. And, and that was really sort of where the the the cooking thing kinda kicked in on sort of doing it on a regular basis. And, also, the you know, a part of of cooking is providing, you know, and this comes into the mom’s side of it as well. And that pleasure that you get from providing and how actually feeding people, whether it’s as a chef in a restaurant or to your friends and family, is actually an incredible source of joy and sort of goodness in your heart.
Allegra McFadyen [00:06:38]:
Anyway, then I went and became a chef, and I worked at a sort of a clutch of Lowendon restaurants at the River Cafe, you know, good restaurants, and, and and The Cow was my first head chef job at the age of 24. I was, the youngest female head chef in Lowendon, and that I was too young actually. I was too young for it really, but, you know, sometimes you take on a challenge and you have to rise to the occasion. And, anyway, I left there, and then I went to New York, and I got a job literally by knocking on the door of Robert De Niro’s restaurant and just blagging it. And when they gave me when they gave me the job, I threw a pile of papers at them and said, right now you’ve got to fill out literally 50 pages of documentation to get my visa sorted. See you in 6 months. I mean, the arrogance of youth is just incredible. But god bless them, they did it.
Allegra McFadyen [00:07:21]:
And I went back and had a very happy time, working in New York with Tribeca Grill with, you know, cooking for people like Uma Thurman, president Clinton, you know, all these really cool people. And then went to San Francisco, worked at a very seminal restaurant, which I don’t know if you know because of the book called Chez Panisse. It was a woman called, Alice Waters who, basically, she developed fork to farm. That was her you know, she was the first person who went the relationship between how long it grew, what ago how long ago it grew, where it grew, what it grew next to is is directly related to how it tastes and how much nutrition and goodness it’s got for you, which for now, these days, is just an absolute given. But back in kind of the, early nineties was, you know, real free thinking. And so I had a very important time with her, and over in San Francisco. And somewhere in all of that, I decided that because, you know, you gotta remember remember the backdrop of what food was like in this country then. And, really, it was you know, in order to be considered to be a chef of note, you had to go into Michelin.
Allegra McFadyen [00:08:25]:
You know, that was really what, yeah, what people would guide, you know, or new or nouvelle cuisine. Do you remember that? Ugh. Awful. But, you know, so that posh food, and and I kinda had this really seminar. I call it my matrix moment where I’ve just realized that, actually, I didn’t want to make posh food for posh people. And what I wanted to do was to make good food better for everybody. I came up with this phrase, the best food to the most people. And then that kind of shaped what I did after that.
Allegra McFadyen [00:08:51]:
And I came back to Lowendon, and I opened a restaurant. So I’d worked in all these museums, now in posh places. And I opened a restaurant in a community center where we did a 2 course lunch for 5 quid every day every day of the week. And that’s really sort of my sort of social side, which is massively important to me, and and that thinking, you know, several years down the line, went into, the the founding of Leon, which is what most people know me for. And somewhere in there, I got an MBE from R. King, for promoting, healthier eating and ethical sourcing, become a I’m the, patron of the Fair Trade Foundation. And, god, I can’t remember. So I’ve written 9 books.
Allegra McFadyen [00:09:27]:
This is my 9th book. I’ve I’ve done lots of kids telly, and some regular telly, but more on CBBC. Was the judge on Junior Bake Off. I had I did a series with 2 series with Fred Cyriak called Step Up to the Plate, trying to get kids into, the sort of back of house side of, kitchens. Where where I mean, yeah, how I feel like I’m talking like loo roll. You know, you can break it off at any point, Nikki.
Nicky Lowe [00:09:50]:
Yeah. I know that. You painted the picture, and what a journey and how you used, really, your grief to to kind of nurture yourself, nurture your family, and then extend that kind of globally. But as you say, the social responsibility part really struck me. And, obviously, what you’re here to talk to us about today is your new book.
Allegra McFadyen [00:10:11]:
Oh, it’s completed.
Nicky Lowe [00:10:12]:
That you’ve made me aware yes. You made me aware just before we hit record that it’s gone into the Amazon top tell me what what
Allegra McFadyen [00:10:22]:
it’s gone into today. It’s, been named by Amazon as one of their top 10 kids and young adults book of 2024, which is amazing. Can you think how many books there are? And and and last week, Friday’s, food program on Radio 4, which, you know, for any foodie is like is a a a Sheila Dinnellan, is a a doyen and a goddess, and she’s named it in as one of her best children’s books, kids books, young adult books of 2024. So I feel like it’s arrived. I’m I’m very, very pleased because I’m very proud of this book.
Nicky Lowe [00:10:53]:
And and so you should be. I was saying last night, me and my kids were looking through it and getting them to choose what they were inspired by, and it is such an engaging book. So tell me, what inspired you to do this book? As you say, you’ve written other books. What why this book and why now?
Allegra McFadyen [00:11:08]:
So what happened was, I’ve got 2 girls, and the big one who is now 14, she was about, I don’t know, maybe 9 or something, and at school, and so she did cookery twice a term. And the first time she did it that term, she came back with, some rather mediocre couscous. And I was like, you know, I’m not I’m not judging. You know, they’re kids. I don’t have a I don’t have hugely, but, you know, I was like, yeah, couscous, fair enough, but this was, like, it was kind of a bit drab. Anyway, the second time she could treat that term, she came back with the same rather drab couscous. So I wrote to the school and I said, no. No.
Allegra McFadyen [00:11:43]:
No. Cuscus. And, is there anything I’m a chef. I’m I I love working with children. I’ve, you know, I’ve I’ve done all this work with the CBBC. I actually also write recipes to Chartwells who supply, food to 2 and a half 1000 different state schools up and down the country, so I work with them. So I’ve got a sort of you know, I’ve got I’ve I’ve got form with the kids. And I said, if you need some recipes, then I’m really happy to supply them, but that’s enough of that, no no no, no, no, kiss kiss, please.
Allegra McFadyen [00:12:10]:
And they wrote back and said, oh, we’re actually we’re looking for, you know and, basically, the the the lovely lady who’d done it for, basically, a bit too long, and we all know those people, was was ready to retire. They just couldn’t find a replacement. So, I went in and had a a chat with the school and I, and and basically started cooking, teaching there. So I still teach at this was 5 years ago now. They they, very kindly, I’ve managed to get a bit of budget together, and we did a bit of a revamp on the kitchen, so it was fit for purpose, but not just couscous. And, and I started writing recipes specifically for the school, the kids, recipes that they wanted. I’d say to them, what do you wanna know how to cook? And they’d be like, burritos. And I’d be like, okay.
Allegra McFadyen [00:12:52]:
And then so I’d go off and have a little practice and do a sort of kiddie version, but still chef y, hence the title chefs wanted. This is about cooking real food. Actually, the first thing they’d always shout is cupcakes. Someone was like, well, that’s not gonna happen with me. You know? They were so, like, yeah, You can go and do that on the weekends with your parents, but we’re gonna yeah. We’re gonna learn how to make proper food. And so, you know, every week or every sort of cycle, so every month or so, I write a new recipe based on what they wanted to cook. And I do, you know, take a little photograph and say this is what it’s gonna look like when it’s finished, and then, you know, teach it to, kids from the age of 3 to 13 was my as my remit.
Allegra McFadyen [00:13:27]:
So I went from nursery through till year 8.
Nicky Lowe [00:13:30]:
How lucky is your daughter’s school? Because, interestingly, my son’s just started secondary school, and just this term has started his kind of cooking. And the first thing that they did was just consoled.
Allegra McFadyen [00:13:41]:
I’m like Do you know why? Because it doesn’t involve any cooking. It’s just a boiler kettle, I mean, and a bit of shopping. I mean, I know which I get. I mean, I totally get. And it is I mean, I have to say, it’s completely terrifying because I don’t I don’t let them use any knives until actually quite young, in year. So when they’re little, we we do rolling because so much of, you know Nikki, I’ve never met a kid who doesn’t like being in the kitchen, you know, who doesn’t like cooking. You know, there’s there’s the mess, there’s the fun, there’s the creativity, there’s the, you know, the rolling and the stirring and the mixing and the beer. Whatever it is, you’re throwing flour everywhere and it’s it’s fun.
Allegra McFadyen [00:14:12]:
I mean, some kids don’t like being messy, but, you know, they can use a spoon or whatever. But, generally, just the whole experience is one that literally kids are just plugged into. And what happens is is they get to be fussy eaters, and then they get to be a bit older, and they get peer pressure. They kind of, you know, sort of go, you know, and it sort of becomes less cool and they, you know, just become disengaged with it. But the young ones, you know, for anything up to kind of, you know, 9, 10, they they literally all love it. And so all I was, you know, all I’ve tried to do is to just plug into that with recipes instead of giving them things that actually because you know what? Not many children actually love couscous. So, you know, recipe things that they actually wanna cook, and they’re weird because, you know, the kids kids these days, you know, they do eat on the high street. So, you know, one one week they all said they wanna make ramen.
Allegra McFadyen [00:14:57]:
I’m like, okay. Let’s make ramen. And, actually, the school my kids go to is vegetarian, which is, you know at first, I was like, oh, I’m you know, god love a vegetarian. God love a vegan. Yes. We do. But, you know, actually, at first, you know, as a chef chef, I was like, oh, it’s a bit of a challenge. Now I absolutely love it.
Allegra McFadyen [00:15:14]:
I mean, partly because I’m not gonna kill anyone with meat poisoning or salmonella or anything, which is always a worry. But, you know, it’s just it’s just such a great way to teach children about seasonality and vegetables. And so so, essentially, to go back to your question, which you asked about 20 minutes ago, I started the book came from the fact that I was writing these recipes and to such a small group of kids, and they’re they’re too good. So I went to my agent. I said, look. I’ve got these recipes. And I you know, and and and so we she punched it off. We went to Dawn and Kindly because they are the people to go to for sort of kids’ educational books.
Allegra McFadyen [00:15:48]:
And I said, I don’t want it to look exactly like all of your fantastic books. They have a real house style. They said, no. No. We don’t want it to either. So that’s why it looks quite different. But DK, a fantastic, you know, global publisher, and this is getting a global release. And, so it’s not a vegetarian book, but a lot of the recipes in it are vegetarian, and some of them adapted for being vegetarian, then about probably about 25% I wrote for the book.
Nicky Lowe [00:16:13]:
And they’re dishes, as you say, it’s a global release. They’re dishes from around the world. I mean, I was really struck by the kind of wide variety of food and and flavors. And when my kids were looking through it, they were like, oh my god. They were could I they hadn’t kinda come across a lot of the dishes because I I was like, oh, actually, I I must have, like, a really limited kind of, repertoire, and so they were really inspired by the color, the design, the it’s really engaging and that wide variety of
Allegra McFadyen [00:16:46]:
of approaches. Yeah. I mean, we live in Lowendon. It’s, you know, it’s a multicultural world. The school’s multicultural. You walk out onto the high street, it’s multicultural. We’re all traveling more. The kids, you know, you look at the whether it’s YouTube or whatever, the world is getting smaller and everyone’s eating differently.
Allegra McFadyen [00:16:59]:
And Nando’s is where, you know, the the here to the high street. And, you know, what’s that sort of puri puri Portuguese African? It’s a you know, it’s it’s it was important to me to reflect that rather than I mean, there’s some sort of very English y recipes in there, but that’s also not how I cook. I’ve always, loved traveling, and have traveled, you know, I’m lucky to have traveled a lot. And whenever I travel when I was, you know, from when I started at about, you know, 9 or something, I always kept a food diary, probably a sign of things to come. So it was I’m sitting in my study at the moment and, yeah, over there, there’s literally a shelf of food diaries that I’ve had, you know, that I’ve been keeping for far too long to mention now. But they’re great with little pictures of, oh, this is what I had in this market or, oh, I saw this amazing vegetable. Don’t know what it is and just drew a really rubbish sketch of it. And, and I love my food diaries, actually.
Nicky Lowe [00:17:48]:
Oh, I love that you did that and still do it. So I I tell you what I’m thinking as I’m sitting here, that I I can really align to the story of kind of being in the kitchen with your mum and how much that meant she was a child. And it was the same for me. My mum was actually a stay at home mum and was brilliant in the kitchen. She used to, like, make her own profiteroles and fill them, and I’d just be in awe at just watching her. But just remember kinda getting and rolling the pastry with her and eating the raw pastry and just like I just loved being in the kitchen with her. But something that’s I’m really aware of is because I’m not a stay at home mom, I have a career and a quite a demanding career that making sure I get time in the kitchen with my kids because it isn’t it’s not just about, obviously, the cooking. It’s really important for me that they eat healthy home cooked food, but there is something about that connection in the kitchen as well.
Nicky Lowe [00:18:40]:
And so reading this made me go, this is this is beyond the food. It’s it’s kind of at a much deeper level, and I want my kids to remember when they’re grown up, like the memories that I’ve got of my mum. And so when I was kind of preparing for this interview, obviously, I wanted to showcase the amazing work you’ve got in this book, but also around how do we help anybody listening that also has that desire to be in
Allegra McFadyen [00:19:04]:
the kitchen cooking with their children, inspiring their
Nicky Lowe [00:19:04]:
children around healthy eating, cooking with their children, inspiring their children around healthy eating. I wonder if you can share, because you you know, you’re a busy mom yourself, how you do this practically, and where would you recommend somebody start?
Allegra McFadyen [00:19:18]:
Well, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head right at the top where you said your mum was your stay at home mum. I mean, you know, that is not that’s not the story these days, is it? Well, not for a lot of a lot of us. I I was a single mum for many, many years, and, you know, juggling being a self employed single mum in hospitality, you know, with my 2 children was, a a push. I mean, I obviously had a bit of a start in the it’s the it’s the world I work in, so we constantly have, you know I’m doing huge tastings here instead of literally 6 boxes of of ingredients turn up of a of a Tuesday morning on the school just for the school run, and the kids just sort of step over them, you know, the the romesco cauliflowers or whatever. So but, I mean, it’s it’s that really, really boring thing. I mean, I have very I’m I’m sort of gonna sidetrack slightly. I have only very recently learned how to be a grown up about money. I’m no good with money.
Allegra McFadyen [00:20:09]:
You know? I’m, I’m I’m doing okay, but I’m just not it’s I’m not a sensible person as in I’m not frivolous with it. I’m just it doesn’t interest me. You know? I earn I pay the bills. I’m not you know, I’ve just and it’s a bit like that with food. You know? You have to kind of engage with it and be a bit of a grown up in order to be able to do it. So, and I gotta say really boring things. Plan. You know? Have a look at the weekends with look through Chefs Wanted or whatever, but look on on look on the Internet.
Allegra McFadyen [00:20:38]:
Loweok on BBC Good Food. That’s great resource. Loweok at whatever you ask your children what they what they want to eat at the you know, in the week, and make a plan. I mean, my my recipes in this book and it’s not I’m not just punting this, but they’re all doable. I’d I’d done all of these with my children in less than an hour. And so, you know, that you’ve got an hour. You know, if you go into it with a plan so at the weekend, you know you know what? Let’s make gnocchi pesto, and you don’t have to make the gnocchi, by the way. You know, but you do make the pesto.
Allegra McFadyen [00:21:06]:
You know? Let’s choose a couple of things. Let’s do that on there. We can do that after school on Tuesday. We can bang that out after the homework and before the piano practice. You know? That’s okay. You may just make a bit of a plan or if you just wanna literally talk to them about how you roast a chicken. Loweok. You pop this in, you know, pop this in the oven or a chicken breast or whatever, and half an hour later, it comes out, and look how yummy it is.
Allegra McFadyen [00:21:26]:
And if you put the potatoes in the pan, ba da, you got free carbs on the side, and they’re delicious because they cook in all the juice. And, hey, stick a carrot in there, and then you’ve got meat and 2 veg, and you’re flying. So it’s literally about working, you know, work smart not hard is the the the phrase in the kitchen that’s always kicked around. Yeah. Plan ahead and even to the extent where, you know, like I said, chuck it all in the oven and bosh. You know? So there’s there’s yeah. That it’s unbelievably boring, which is why I I made the the the money analogy at the start. I find that unbelievably boring, but I just have to do it.
Nicky Lowe [00:22:00]:
I love that analogy because it actually made me think I remember when I moved into we we brought an an old farmhouse 20 about 20 years ago, 22 years ago. And I when we did the kitchen, we had an AGA put in, and I was like, right. I’m gonna be this, like, amazing kind of I don’t know. I don’t know who I thought I was gonna be.
Allegra McFadyen [00:22:24]:
I do. Yeah. I got I got your number.
Nicky Lowe [00:22:29]:
Yeah. I I remember going, and I haven’t got a clue how to roast a chicken. And I’m I lost my mum actually 19 years ago today, but I remember in her last year of my life kind of ringing her up and saying, can you come out and and and help me just work out what the hell I do with this chicken? And I realized that although I’d been in the kitchen with her, not being, as you say, the intentionality of being actually, it’s boring because I know this stuff. And how if I’ve been like, I wanna be more intentional with my children about that because you don’t know how long you’re gonna be around for. And I want them to feel that if they wanna cook a really lovely meal, that they feel resourced to be able to do that. So I love the intentionality about, yeah, it might be boring, but let’s get a plan together. Let’s get prepped so that we’re setting ourselves up for success.
Allegra McFadyen [00:23:15]:
That’s exactly it. Set yourselves up for success because otherwise, you’re scrabbling around. And it’s fine to scrabble around at the back of the of the cupboard and, you know, pull out some pasta of a, you know, Tuesday after evening or whatever. But, actually, you, you know, you’re not gonna if you want to meet make your children or get your children more engaged with food, eating healthier, knowing more about that journey, just hanging out with their mum in the kitchen, you know, like you and I have both, you know, you and I both are holding on to those memories, you know. We both lost our moms a long time ago, but they’re still important to you and me. And giving passing some of that on, you know, you ain’t gonna do it by just sitting there and looking at your laptop or your phone, you know. So it’s it’s you gotta make the time for it. It’s it’s anything, you know.
Allegra McFadyen [00:23:54]:
It’s in order to get get on top of it. It’s me and my boring spreadsheets.
Nicky Lowe [00:23:59]:
Do you do planning on your spreadsheets then, or is that just for
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:02]:
the company? My wife my wife does. No. I can’t. I can’t, but she does. Yeah. She’s excellent.
Nicky Lowe [00:24:08]:
So does she do the meal planning on the spreadsheets?
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:11]:
No. No. No. No. She does the money. No. No. No.
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:13]:
No. No. No. No. No. The meal the meal planning spreadsheet is no. No. That feels all wrong to me.
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:16]:
But but you know what? Do whatever works for you. If you wanna do it on a spreadsheet, do it on a spreadsheet. No. No. She does the money on a spreadsheet. We do the meal plan. We do the meal planning on something something that looks like this. You know, I’ve constantly got bits of piece of paper hanging around my house, but but it’s a joy.
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:31]:
Sorry. That’s
Nicky Lowe [00:24:32]:
yeah. Sorry. It’s a joy. No. I love that. So let’s tell me about what your favorite recipes in this book, and I can tell you what my my children went to as well.
Allegra McFadyen [00:24:43]:
Well, actually, you know, when you all I I I literally have I mean, I think there’s barely a a weak link in this. I mean, if there is a weak link. I’m flicking through it now, and I really do have loved this all. Because this is as as as we were talking about earlier, Nikki, this is my 9th book and, I am really proud. Normally, when you get to this stage of the book, you are over it. You are literally over it. You’ve written it. You’ve edited it.
Allegra McFadyen [00:25:08]:
You’ve re edited it. You’ve shot it. You’ve reshot it. You’ve touched up. You’ve told them they’ve done your you know, that doesn’t sound like your you you’ve just you’re done, done, done, done. I still love this book. It’s so fresh. Alice, there’s this lady called Alice Bauscher who did the illustrations.
Allegra McFadyen [00:25:24]:
They are so bonkers. I was just looking there. There was a there’s a recipe for sunshine, sunshine scones, and they’ve got corn and turmeric in them. And she’s put this cobble yeah, corn on the cob, on a sunburner. Oh, you know, so that just chilling out on the sun. She’s just absolutely great, and that that’s one of the things I think that’s really made it, like, pop for the children and also makes me laugh because it’s not just my food, my words, my my shoot. Yeah. My yeah.
Allegra McFadyen [00:25:50]:
It’s it’s I’m I’m I’m looking at spring rolls with sweet chili dipping sauce. She’s got a chili having a bath in a little dish of sweet chili sauce, and it’s just really cool.
Nicky Lowe [00:25:59]:
So what I what I particularly love about it is you you you go through around kind of seasonality and food miles. So there’s like a there’s a there’s an education process in this that is wider than just the cooking itself. You go through about what a smart chef is, and then you go through, which I think is great because we kind of we forget what we know and what we don’t know at a certain stage. So you go through about the spices and the herbs because, you know, there’s an assumption that our kids might know some of this stuff, and we just take it for granted. So you what I love is that. And then one of the first things when I opened the book, I was there was a jam sandwich, and I was like, ah, and then I realized, obviously, you’re teaching us to make bread, soda bread. And I was like, I love that. That is so my daughter.
Nicky Lowe [00:26:52]:
You know? She loves her go to snack. It’s a jam sandwich, but I was like, that just elevates it. And the thing that she’s
Allegra McFadyen [00:26:58]:
Sorry. Go ahead. I was just gonna say that’s the first recipe that I do with every class at school once they’re old enough to be on the on the stove, which I bring I introduce the stove and the knives at year year 4. But we always do I do a jam sandwich because I just think that’s something that every kid can relate to. And, yeah, so within an hour, you know, I teach them 12 at a time, we start off. We make the butter. So milk, so the milk cream goes in. Out of that, they get a ball of butter and the buttermilk, which is the byproduct.
Allegra McFadyen [00:27:23]:
From the buttermilk, you make the soda bread because that’s the traditional way to do it. And then once the bread’s in the oven, because it’s not one that you have to leave to rise, obviously, once the bread’s in the oven, you make a pot of seasonal jam, whether it’s plum in the autumn or strawberry in the summer. And they do at the end of an hour, each kid, each very surprised looking kid leaves with a loaf of bread in a in a brown paper bag, a ball of butter, and a pot of still rather hot jam. But, you know, it’s but they’re just and then they go and scissor. And I remember the first time I did it, and I was like, woah. You know, it felt like I just done done a marathon. But then I I opened the back door to the kitchen. I just went and had a look.
Allegra McFadyen [00:27:58]:
There’s a little bit grass outside the back of the school. And they were sitting there literally breaking bread, huffing it into the butter, and dipping it in the jams, just sitting bunches of kids. And I was just like, okay. Right right there, that’s what we’re doing. Yeah. That is why we’re doing this.
Nicky Lowe [00:28:12]:
And that sense of achievement for the children as well of, like, I’ve yeah. And so I was blown away by that. That was one of the things that first caught my attention. And then the thing that my daughter’s asked that we’re making this weekend is the banana crunch French toast. That’s what she wanted to do.
Allegra McFadyen [00:28:32]:
That’s a good one. That’s well, you know why that why they love that one. I’ve been doing that one actually in demos when I’ve been doing, book promotions around the around the country. It’s because you you wrap the the you put the the banana in the croissant, then you wrap it in, in in in cling film, and then you sit on it. And you give it a good old bum squiggle and and you let you know, and everyone just loves the fact that I said, yeah. Then you sit on it and you give it a good old fist till it’s nice and squidgy. Because it’s got to be fun. That’s the thing.
Allegra McFadyen [00:28:58]:
If it’s not fun, they’re not gonna do it. You know? So, you know, my teaching style and my even my writing style, you know, it’s not, or rather, it is a bit irreverent. You know? It is talking to them on their level. You know? You do, it’s got to be, you know, cooking is part art, part science, and a 100% magician. You know? It’s the it’s there’s nothing about it that kids won’t like if you sell it to them. And, you know, so you need to bring some energy to it rather than just, like, oh god. I’ve got to make banana cross off of French toast for the kids. Oh, I want all I want to be doing is, you know, whatever it is you want to do.
Allegra McFadyen [00:29:33]:
But you’ve got to enjoy it. And I bet you, if you throw out yourself at it, and this goes to all of you busy moms out there, you go in with the right attitude and they’ll you know, you’ll all come out not only with banana crust or crunch, French toast, or whatever the stupid name of it was, but all feeling pride, happiness, and just like you’re a little bit of a better person because of it.
Nicky Lowe [00:29:53]:
You’ve sold it. You have sold it like that. So the one that my son went to was the bacon and egg pancakes, and I love I’ll tell you what I love about your book and and what I love about cookbooks generally. I I can have all the ingredients in the kitchen, and after a busy day, I kind of look like a a a kind of deer in headlights. I’m like, what am I doing? I’m tired. I’m overwhelmed. I’m kind of you know, my brain isn’t working properly. And what I loved about this is my son absolutely loves bacon and eggs.
Nicky Lowe [00:30:26]:
He’s like a proper bacon and eggs, but we’ve never tried them with pancakes. I’m like, why do
Allegra McFadyen [00:30:30]:
you not think Well, actually, I don’t know if you’ve read the intro to that, but that’s where it came from because I’m baking. I’m like your boy. I’m bacon and eggs, but my kids are both pancakes. And I was like, well, I’m not doing 2 brunches of a weekend, so whack them together. A bit of maple syrup, you know, a bit of bacon, bit of and a bit of nice delicious. Delicious. So you’ve basically got double brunch on this on this weekend. Try and choose some choose some of the proper dinners.
Nicky Lowe [00:30:53]:
Well, the the other one that my son went to was, like, Friday night, movie night. He likes
Allegra McFadyen [00:30:58]:
Yeah. So good.
Nicky Lowe [00:30:59]:
Hash because, again
Allegra McFadyen [00:31:01]:
Yeah.
Nicky Lowe [00:31:02]:
Yeah. I’m like, we don’t tend to have nachos at home, and I was like, that’s one that he will enjoy making for us for movie night. We’ll take that with such kind of
Allegra McFadyen [00:31:11]:
Exactly. I mean, the the and the nachos, you know, the the so you you start with corn tortillas, which are available in pretty much every supermarket now or online. So not not the flour ones, the corn ones. Cut them up, bake them so there’s nothing, you know, not deep fried. Bake them and then in that, it’s got some black bits, got like a salsa with black beans and corn in it, and so, you know, you’ve got your carbs. You’ve got your, you know, you’ve got your your veggies in there. So it is and, obviously, your cheese and chili and blah blah. So but, you know, even that basic recipe, you’re squeezing in that protein.
Allegra McFadyen [00:31:41]:
You’re squeezing in you’re introducing pulses. Most kids are funny about pulses apart from baked beans, which for some reason they don’t because they’re a pulse. Who knew? That’s it. But, you know, they are a bit weird, but I’m not gonna like kidney beans or whatever. But, you know, you squeeze the pulse now. They’re just like, oh, they all and that’s the thing. If you if you bring that enthusiasm I mean, when I started teaching, like, the kids were like, no. I don’t like chili.
Allegra McFadyen [00:32:01]:
There’s a whole double page spread on chilies. I don’t know if you’ve seen that because I adore chilies. And now in my classes, I say, okay. So you don’t have to have chili, but anyone fancy a little bit little bit what do I make? What are we making this weekend? I’ve done we did, done a vegan sausage roll for them, this weekend with, like, brownie apples and roasted squash, a little bit of soy soy mince, some miso in there. And you make this really, like, also a sage because it’s, like, Christmassy. So it’s like so it’s a really delish kind of vegan sausage roll, and they all thought it was yummy. But and I was just like, it’s really good with a little bit chili. Don’t have to and I think all but one kid was like, yes, chef.
Allegra McFadyen [00:32:36]:
So they call me Chef Allegra. Yeah. Chef Allegra. That’s why the book I was gonna call it Yes Chef, but it was a bit kind of bit too cheffy. So but Chef Wanted is, I think it’s a it’s it’s what we need. We need more chefs.
Nicky Lowe [00:32:47]:
Absolutely. The other 2 that my son picked out were Barney’s pie.
Allegra McFadyen [00:32:53]:
Oh, bless Barney. Yeah. Yeah. Barney’s pie looks banging, doesn’t it?
Nicky Lowe [00:32:57]:
It looks amazing. And you’ve you my son was pleased because you there was you’d allowed a little bit of I think it’s tomato ketchup on the side, and he was like
Allegra McFadyen [00:33:05]:
And I I think I said it’s obligatory. But, yeah, no. It’s really good. And, actually, there’s another one that that, my my wife’s American. She’s a New Yorker, and so there’s and she introduced me to the way of the grilled cheese sandwich. So that’s in there, and your boy will probably like that too. But that’s still not only has it got, compulsory ketchup, but it’s got well, I mean, it’s in it’s not compulsory, but I say nice but cold ketchup from the fridge ketchup. Yes.
Allegra McFadyen [00:33:32]:
A hot grilled cheese with the cheese pull that all the kids go on about, and and they’re the cold dollar for ketchup. It’s like, oh, so good, Nikki. So good.
Nicky Lowe [00:33:40]:
And I love that you with the pie, you’ve made it, like, you and you put in I’ve you know, I’ve I’ve spent time adapting this to make sure that it it’s actually really workable and doable, and I love that.
Allegra McFadyen [00:33:52]:
Yeah. It looks incredible. Yeah. Oh, good. Good. Good. I think your boy’s a bit of a cook, by the way. He is.
Nicky Lowe [00:33:57]:
He is. He’s more so than my daughter. He’s he really enjoys being practical. And the other one that I really appreciate, because I love to do and kind of do slow cooking, is the winter warmer stew with the buttery mash and how you teach people to do proper mash.
Allegra McFadyen [00:34:15]:
Yeah. I it’s called winter warmer stew with but but I say straight off that, yeah, it’s actually all about making mash. That that’s how you make that’s how chefs make mash. Yeah. That’s not how moms make mash. That’s how and, you know, and it doesn’t involve anything more than the usual, you know, tools, but it’s just the it’s just the the the way that you do it. It’s just slightly different to how a a mom would generally do it. I may I’m I’m breeding an army an army of young chefs.
Nicky Lowe [00:34:39]:
Yeah. And you’ve got the is it the Maki rolls, which
Allegra McFadyen [00:34:43]:
Maki rolls. Yeah. You see, because when I said to them, what do you wanna make? I’m I’m I was amazed how many of them said sushi. I was like, really? You want to make sushi? Yeah. I’m like, this is just regular Joe’s, you know. And that’s happened, you know, kids just love sushi. I don’t know why, but they just have have you tried that with your kids?
Nicky Lowe [00:35:00]:
No. Not yet. But I’m not really a sushi fan, so it’s making me go, I’ve maybe not opened the world of sushi too though, honey.
Allegra McFadyen [00:35:06]:
Exactly. You see, because you closed it you closed that door for yourself, and now you’ve closed it for your children. Open it up open it up, Nikki. They love it. Kids, I don’t know why, cold rice in seaweed. Do you think if, you know, if you try to sell that to a kid, they’ll be like, no, But actually, they love sushi.
Nicky Lowe [00:35:22]:
And you’ve got things like rocking ramen, the mezze munchies, and my favorite that I wanna try, let alone the kids, is the cauliflower cheese bonavants.
Allegra McFadyen [00:35:32]:
Yeah. Why not, man? Why not? 2 great things there. There’s another one that’s that’s a combination of 2 great things. It’s a it’s a recipe in there for pizza wheels. And I was like, 2 of man’s greatest invention, pizza and the wheel, in one recipe. Yeah. No. I’m I’m glad that you you like it.
Allegra McFadyen [00:35:50]:
I mean, you know, I I think you but I think you should get one for Christmas, or you could just give them that one.
Nicky Lowe [00:35:54]:
I think they’re they’re gonna start using that this weekend, and I think one I’m gonna try and instill, as you say, just this habit. If you pick one recipe a week, and and let’s let’s just explore and experiment. And
Allegra McFadyen [00:36:07]:
You know what? I’m gonna I’m gonna come back to you in a couple of months and say, how’s that going, Nikki? I’m gonna pull you off on that and just see. Because it is your one recipe of work. All you need to do is whack it onto your Ricardo or whatever, you know, they’re all basic ingredients. Just make a bit of I know you said top tip, you know, but being a working mom is one of the best things in the world. I you know, I’m really glad that my kids see what it’s like to be a working mom. You can be a mom, a great mom, and, you know, run your own business and do this and do that, but you’ve gotta keep on top of it. And, you know, passing on top of it is the planning.
Nicky Lowe [00:36:37]:
And you said something that really struck me that I’ve closed the door for me and therefore closed the door for my children, and it’s about opening those doors. I was like, that’s really powerful. I was like, oh, gosh. Yeah.
Allegra McFadyen [00:36:48]:
That’s a bit harsh as well, isn’t it? It’s a little bit harsh.
Nicky Lowe [00:36:53]:
You know, I can see it. My my son has got my husband’s kind of palate, and they he will eat everything and everything, squid, octopus. I don’t like sea seafood, particularly. And my daughter is like, oh, no. I don’t like that. And I’m like, you’ve never actually tried it to say
Allegra McFadyen [00:37:09]:
that. Yeah. But, you know, it’s easy for me to sit here and say that because I love food, you know. I I’ve always loved food. I’ve always loved cooking. I’ve been in it, you know, basically all my life in some way or another. Yeah. There are lots and lots and lots of people out there, lots who don’t like cooking.
Allegra McFadyen [00:37:24]:
And so I can see that the challenge would be you want your children to be engaged with food. You want your children to be eating healthier. But if you yourself aren’t that happy in the kitchen so but maybe re you know, maybe maybe You Chefs Wanted as a reboot because it is a book that is it’s just fun to look at, and maybe it can help people reengage. I mean, I’m not trying to oversell this. I’m not the messiah or anything, but maybe it just can be a way that parents and and kids can reengage together in the kitchen.
Nicky Lowe [00:37:55]:
And, Andy, what struck me then is our kids can inspire us to fall back in love with it, you know, fall in love with it perhaps for the first time. So thank you. Thank you for writing this book, and thank you for inspiring my kids and also me in the process. So I’ve just got a couple of questions to finish on. And I wonder if you had to pick just one dish that represented for you in your home comfort and joy, what would that be?
Allegra McFadyen [00:38:21]:
Well, can I have 2?
Nicky Lowe [00:38:22]:
Yeah.
Allegra McFadyen [00:38:23]:
Because they’re quite different. I mean, comfort and joy, I don’t think you can really beat a roast chicken, you know, as in people get to you know, it goes it says something about a roast chicken, particularly, like, for us, I think something about a Sunday meal, whether it’s Sunday lunch or something, is a little bit sacred. You know, it’s a time they don’t England particularly or Britain or yeah. It’s, you know, we it’s it’s it’s particularly British to do that, but just have that moment where it comes out of the oven. You’re all sitting together. You know, like you said, make it easy for yourself. Put the potatoes and the carrots in the pan with the chicken so it’s all done already. You know? And you’ve got to just boil some greens, and you’re away.
Allegra McFadyen [00:39:00]:
You don’t it’s not a big drama. But there’s something about sitting down to roast chicken that is just you did it as a child. Your mom did it as a child. We’ve done it. You know? It’s it’s it there’s just it’s a it’s a moment. But for our family, I take tacos because because tacos, you know, you can have them you can have them meaty, you can have them veggie, you can just have them with the cheese and the salad, you can have, you know, you can have bits of broccoli in them, you can have a a beef chili in them, you can have, you know, strips of chicken, you could just you know, you could do whatever you want. You could have beans, you could have salsa, And everyone gets to choose. You know? Choose what you want, and that’s that’s what a family is about.
Allegra McFadyen [00:39:37]:
You know? It’s about being trying to please the best people best food to the most people.
Nicky Lowe [00:39:44]:
Oh, 2 strong choices there. And what it made me think as well is the roast chicken is a really strong one. One of the things that I did with my mom and I’ve passed on to my children is just one of those family rituals that sticks with you is my mom always used to keep the Wishbone, and then we’d dry it out. And then we’d alternatively get to be able to pull the wishbone, and whoever got the the bigger side of it would get to make the wish.
Allegra McFadyen [00:40:07]:
Yeah. Sometimes I find them at the back of the, we call it the hot air cupboard because it’s not really an air in cupboard. It’s the boiler cupboard. But we call it the hot air cupboard. And sometimes they see them just hanging on the pipes. They’re thinking, well, how long have they been there?
Nicky Lowe [00:40:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so do you as you say, how much comfort that brings? And my final question is, what is one hack or tip that you’ve learned in the kitchen that you could pass on to us that just either is something we might not know or just would make life easier?
Allegra McFadyen [00:40:35]:
Oh god. You’re you’re gonna hate me because I I’ve I’ve I’ve scratched something down, and it’s really, really boring. And there’s probably loads more that I could think of that are actually useful, like buy peeled onions or something like that. But, but, actually, in terms of, like, what you if you were serious about sort of your your your your your your newfound culinary life, Nikki, keep on top of your fridge. Keep on top of your fridge, because actually, it having a sort of stock rotation, it sounds so boring, but actually it’s really rewarding because food waste, you know, it will absolutely go down. But if you keep on top of it and I only do it do it sort of a little I fiddle bit throughout the week. But, generally, on a Saturday morning when I get up, you know, have have a coffee or whatever, and then I go to the fridge and I just have a look. Right.
Allegra McFadyen [00:41:22]:
Check your sell by dates. What the heck is that at the back there? Go to the back of the veg drawer. You know? Feed it to the rabbit or whatever if it’s gone, but if not, turn it into a soup or something. And it but there’s something so satisfying about not 3 I mean, do you know the stats on how much food you throw away? I mean, I think it’s something like 30%. It’s really it’s it’s actually gross, how much so keeping on top of your food waste makes you feel better about yourself, the planet, using stuff, your your, you know, your money, all of it, all of it, all of it. It’s amazing how satisfying staying on top of your fridge is, and that is my sexy tip for you.
Nicky Lowe [00:41:58]:
I wasn’t expecting you to say that, but that’s so reassuring to hear because as you say, you think it’s all like the bells and whistles and the sexy stuff. But as you’ve pointed out already, it’s just been a grown up about this and and kind of applying some intentionality to it.
Allegra McFadyen [00:42:12]:
Yeah. So sorry not to be more more more exciting about that one, but, it is actually it’s it it is actually useful and rewarding.
Nicky Lowe [00:42:18]:
Time well spent because I do that on a Saturday morning, actually. And sometimes I’m like, oh, other people are doing things far more exciting in their life, but now you’ve reassured me, no. I’m doing something incredibly worthwhile for the planet.
Allegra McFadyen [00:42:29]:
As as long as yeah. Exactly. Exact exactly. Such a pleasure talking to you, Nikki. Thank you so much.
Nicky Lowe [00:42:35]:
And thank you for the work that you’ve put into the world and into this book. If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Wisdom For Working Mums, please share it on social media and with your friends and family. I’d love to connect with you too. So if you head over to wisdom for working mums.co.uk, you’ll find a link on how to do this. And if you love the show and really want to support it, please go to Itunes, write a review, and subscribe. You’ll be helping another working mom find this resource too. Thanks so much for listening.
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