Nicky Lowe [00:00:06]:
Hi. It’s Nicky Lowe, and welcome to the Wisdom for Working Mums podcast show. I’m your host. And for nearly 2 decades now, I’ve been an executive coach and leadership development consultant. And on this show, I share evidence based insights from my coaching, leadership, and psychological expertise and inspiring interviews that help women like you to combine your work, life, and motherhood in a more successful and sustainable way. Join me and my guest as we delve into leadership and lifestyle topics for women, empowering you to thrive one conversation at a time. I’m so happy that you’re here, and let’s go on with today’s episode. What can a dog behaviorist teach us about leadership? Well, in this episode, I’m gonna take you behind the scenes of a recent experience I had with a dog behaviorist for my 2 puppies.
Nicky Lowe [00:00:57]:
Unexpectedly, it taught me so much more than how to handle my dogs. It gave me some powerful insights into leadership, both in my personal and professional life. So in this episode, I’m gonna share the behind the scenes of that experience and the 5 leadership lessons that I think we can all apply in our lives. Just to give you some context, I’ve been a dog owner for most of my life. Like many children, I wanted a dog from a really young age. My mum was open to having a dog, but my dad didn’t want us to have one. And I remember so many weekends where I’d say to my mum, I’m bored. If only I had a dog, I’d be able to take it on a walk.
Nicky Lowe [00:01:42]:
And this went on for quite a while until I was 11 and my dad finally agreed for us to have a dog, and we got a little white West Highland terrier who we named. And I look back at this name now, and I think, what were we thinking? We named him Basil. And the reason for that was that my mum worked in a health food shop, called The Nutmeg in my local village, And we decided we wanted to name our dog after a herb or spice because this was one of those old health shops where they had, I suppose, almost like the old fashioned sweet jars filled with herbs and spices. And you could go in and get your different herbs and spices weighed out. And so I always remember being in that shop and seeing all the different labels. And so we decided we were gonna name it after, as I say, a herbal spice, and we landed on the name Basil. So that was our family dog. And an interesting fact about me is that actually my first job was working as a Saturday assistant in that health food shop.
Nicky Lowe [00:02:48]:
And I actually learned a lot about supplements and homeopathy and, yeah, general well-being over that time. Anyway, back to the dogs. Basil was a really kind of loved member of our family and sadly passed away when I was at university. And then in my mid twenties, my now husband and I brought, an old, kind of really rundown farmhouse we started renovating. And we decided to get not one, but 2 puppies, because we were lucky enough to have quite a bit of land with this farmhouse. And we were like, do you know what? This is a perfect environment for animals. And so we thought we’d not only get 1, but we get 2 puppies, and they were black Labradors from the same litter. They were 2 brothers.
Nicky Lowe [00:03:35]:
And we were lucky to have them for nearly 15 years. And they taught us a lot about how to be dog parents. And we made some mistakes with how we trained them. Because we, kind of, lived on a farm, we walked them a lot without leads. So when we did need to put them on leads, they pulled a lot. They were little monkeys for escaping and taking themselves off on adventures across the farm, And we would get a call from a local kind of farmhouse down the track to say, we’ve got your dogs. And at the time, my husband was running his growing business from our farm. So our Labradors were really socialised with people coming and going, And we’d laugh because they were like the worst guide dogs because they never flinched if someone new arrived at our home.
Nicky Lowe [00:04:20]:
They rarely barked. And we had an amazing time with these Labradors, but it did teach us a lot about kind of being dog parents. And we lost our 2 Labradors a few years ago. The first one sadly died when he was 11 and the second one when he was 14. And by then we had 2 young children And we discussed getting new dogs, but we wanted to, firstly, wait to get over the loss because I think it takes a while to process the grief of losing, pets. But we also wanted to wait until our children were old enough to really respect a little puppy’s space, and it’d be the right time in their lives to to kind of introduce dogs. So last year we decided it was the right time and we wanted to welcome a new dog into our home again. And we decided to get 2 dogs again because we have the space.
Nicky Lowe [00:05:14]:
And we ended up getting a little girl and a little boy from the same litter. But this time we decided to go for a different breed. We actually got 2 cockapoos, partly because we wanted smaller dogs that children could easily hold on walks on the lead because Labradors, particularly for my daughter, who was 4 when we got these dogs, we thought it might be too much for her. But we also underestimated when we had the Labradors how much they molted, like the hair that we would have in the house. And I was like, do you know what? Just to make my life easier, I think having a dog that doesn’t molt would be really useful. So we found an incredible breeder and we were lucky enough to get these 2 dogs in our lives. And we were keen not to make the same mistakes in training these dogs as we did with our Labradors. And I think we’ve done that to a degree, but we also underestimated that this breed would be different and have different needs and challenges.
Nicky Lowe [00:06:18]:
So as small puppies, everything seemed great. We were like, absolutely got the right dogs, the right breed. This is all going so well. They’re small and cute. And we took them to dog training when they were old enough. So we took them an hour a week for 10 weeks. I took the girl dog and my son took the boy dog and we put the training in and the homework. But then I would say over the last year, we’ve noticed some bad habits and behaviors were creeping in.
Nicky Lowe [00:06:47]:
So they were really pulling on the lead and I wasn’t expecting that with a smaller breed. The barking, oh my God, unlike our Labradors that were terrible guard dogs, the Cockapoos just seem to bark at their own shadow. The, female cockapoo, was she’s like a gamut and was trying to steal food off my daughter all the time. I think I saw her as the easy, easy target. And every time I opened the bin, they were trying to steal food out the bin. And I tried to do the things I thought would help with those behaviors. Like, you know, with the pulling on the lead, I brought several different harnesses and several different leads, tried, like, just sheer willpower of trying to undo that behavior. We tried to make the dogs you know, it clear that they needed to stay away from food while we were eating.
Nicky Lowe [00:07:40]:
But it just seemed that everything I tried wasn’t having the desired result. And I put it down to the breed or them still being quite young dogs. I also was like, oh, maybe it’s because we’ve got a brother and sister from the same litter. And so I kept kind of thinking, yeah, it’ll get better. But there was also a part of me that knew that if I didn’t address these behaviors, I’d start to resent the dogs and walks were becoming less enjoyable. And I just thought these problems wouldn’t go away. So I decided to hire a dog behaviorist. And, oh my God, he was amazing.
Nicky Lowe [00:08:22]:
He’d been recommended by a family friend that just happened to say in passing that they’d had some issues with their dog. Their family dog had started to get really protective over their toys. And although it wasn’t, getting kind of aggressive towards them as a family, it was just getting very aggressive towards their toys. And they were kind of thinking, this is a strange. It’s come out of nowhere. So they found their stop behaviorist and were raving about them. So I thought, gee, I’m just gonna give them a call. And it was this guy called Gabriel.
Nicky Lowe [00:08:53]:
I had a telephone conversation with him, and he basically said, yep. I come across You pay for 1 session, and I solve everything in that session. And if I can’t solve the issues for you, you don’t pay. And I thought, that sounds, you know, very confident. And he basically mostly said to me, the problems that I was experiencing with my dog were so easy to fix. And I thought either, you know, he doesn’t know my dogs. Either, like, I’m so stupid that I can’t get this simple problem fixed, but I was really intrigued. So we arranged for him to come over 1 Friday afternoon, and he wanted to come, after my children had finished school, is he wanted to visit us as a whole family.
Nicky Lowe [00:09:41]:
So you can probably guess he wasn’t there to fix our dogs, but actually work with us as the owners. So he kind of knew that we were the problem, not the dogs. And within 10 minutes, I I told the absolute truth here that within 10 minutes of arriving at our house, it was like we had completely different dogs, and it kind of blew my mind. And what was also incredible is he didn’t even say anything to the dogs. He didn’t use his voice in that way, And I was in awe. And not only was it a powerful experience in dog behavior, so how to have these 2 well behaved and happy dogs, But it also, as I say, unexpectedly taught me a whole bunch about leadership. And I think these lessons can be applied both in our personal lives and in our work lives. So I wanted to share those with you.
Nicky Lowe [00:10:38]:
And the first lesson is around having clear boundaries. And I know with working moms, we talk a lot about how boundaries kind of help support us. But I think what was so powerful about watching a dog behaviorist is that he actually used no words. So one of his fundamental teaching is around establishing these clear boundaries. And what he was saying to us is that dogs thrive when they understand what’s expected of them and that they know the limits that they should adhere to. And he was sharing that in kind of animal packs, it’s made very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable. And I think that’s similar in leadership, setting clear boundaries really fosters a healthy work environment. And so for the moment Gabriel walked into the room, it was clear he was a leader.
Nicky Lowe [00:11:28]:
He made it clear with his body language and his energy that he was in control and that they could trust him as their leader. And there was no, like, aggression at all in this. He had this really calm kind of presence. And I think that’s something that we can all learn from, you know, that being clear on what the boundaries are, being clear that, like, he was the leader in that room. And he made it very clear to them what was acceptable behavior or not. So literally within, you know, anything that they tried, he, as I say, within 10 minutes, they were different dogs because he very quickly gave them feedback about what was acceptable or not. And it reminds me of a time that I was coaching in a utility company and I was coaching a number of the functional leaders. And in the coaching session, so many of my about this particular leader in the organization.
Nicky Lowe [00:12:28]:
He was, like, the enterprise leader. And they all shared a metaphor that was his metaphor. I thought it was so powerful, 1, because everybody was on the same page. And I thought, 2, it was so interesting that everybody talked about this metaphor. But I’ll share the metaphor with you now because I think that explains so clearly this piece about clear boundaries. And the metaphor he used was, that as a team, they had a well. So a well that was full of water that was their shared drinking water. And he was really clear that they wanted that water to be as clean and as kind of powerful as possible.
Nicky Lowe [00:13:11]:
But they were behaviors that would poison the water. So he was basically talking about toxic behaviors, and he made it really clear what those behaviors were. So one of them, those behaviors, was that you give people feedback. And with that, what he meant was you don’t say anything behind somebody’s back that you haven’t or wouldn’t be willing to say to their face. And people would share examples about, you know, they’d be queuing in the head office canteen and for lunch, and he’d hear somebody in front in the queue, basically, moaning and gossiping about somebody else. And he was known to tap them on the shoulder and go, oh, just checking that you’ve given that feedback to, you know, Sarah, because I’m just about to tell her you’ve got some feedback for her. So he would really hold their feet to the fire. He was very clear on the behaviors that were acceptable, and he would hold those his team members to those kind of boundaries and behaviors.
Nicky Lowe [00:14:11]:
And I think that’s what I saw with the dog behavior is it was so clear, and there was so much clarity. There was no confusion between him and the dogs. And I just thought that was so powerful to see in practice and how so quickly their behavior changed because of it. The next lesson, so lesson 2, was about consistent communication. And kind of I know, like, we know this, that consistency is so important and particularly for, kind of, our dog behavior. And what Gabriel was teaching us is that dogs learn best when commands are delivered consistently. But what was fascinated me is that Gabriel asked us not to use words. And he kind of joked.
Nicky Lowe [00:14:56]:
He said dogs don’t learn from talking to each other. They just use kind of little, either physical cues or sounds. And he asked us to use a neutral sound, to choose a neutral sound. So he talked about a neutral sound either being a clap or a shh noise. And the reason that he said that is he wanted to make sure that we weren’t kind of loading our emotions with the communication. And the, the kind of basis of that is that actually dogs pick up on our emotions. And if we are angry or anxious, they will pick up on that and it will negatively impact their behavior. So he wanted us to be able to communicate in an almost emotion, neutral emotion way.
Nicky Lowe [00:15:45]:
And I suppose And again, really, really powerful. So now rather than telling my dogs to down, stay, and we have taught those commands. So those commands were layered in when we did our dog training. But clearly, when we were trying to reinforce them, they weren’t having the impact. But this neutral sound, it’s so interesting. It’s had a really powerful impact. So how does this relate to leadership? Because I’m not asking you to communicate with your team like they’re animals, and I’m not inviting you to go around clapping gush, indeed. It’s really about maintaining that open and consistent communication.
Nicky Lowe [00:16:25]:
And I think from leadership, we know how important it is to provide feedback and share expectations and address challenges and have that regular and transparent communication because it builds trust and cohesion. And I think practicing that consistent communication really empowers our teams. But actually, the lesson from this dogpaverist is less is more. And if I relate that back to leadership, I think if we’re not standing in our leadership power, we can over communicate, almost like talking too much to kind of fill the space because we’re not feeling so grounded, which can impact the clarity of our message. So I’m not asking you to take out all emotion. I think having emotional intelligence and leadership is really important. And as I say, I’m not asking you to go around clapping or shushing, but just thinking about how consistent am I in my communication and how do I practice that in a way that helps people feel really grounded in my own leadership and what’s expected. The third lesson from my dog behaviorist is about striving for this calm, assertive leadership, because Gabriel taught us that it’s the calmest dog in the room that’s the leader, which I thought was interesting.
Nicky Lowe [00:17:52]:
I’d never thought of it that way because calm, assertive energy is the most balanced energy and actually the only energy that dogs will follow. So dogs won’t listen to or follow our frustration, our anger, our fear, our insecurity, our weaknesses, our excitement, or our anxiety, those are basically all unbalanced energies. And actually, dogs will gravitate and be subservient towards a calm, balanced energy. And what my lesson here was from a, as a kind of dog owner, is that I’d interpreted being kind and nice to my dogs as kind of a positive reinforcement. But I think what it’s taught me over that time is that my, my well intentioned actions, like it came from a good place, were actually inadvertently creating nervousness in my dogs. So what Gabriel was teaching me is actually watching the different tail wags. And the tail wags that I thought were expressions of happiness sometimes were signs of anxiety stemming from a lack of clear leadership. He was like, look at that tail.
Nicky Lowe [00:19:05]:
That’s like a shark fin that’s darting around. And I was like, Ah, okay. And so just like dogs, our teams thrive when they feel secure and supported by a calm, confident leader. And it gives kind of a sense of that psychological safety and reassurance. And it made me think about, a term called teacup. And teacup was a term that was created or became famous by Clive Woodward. So Clive Woodward, who you may recognize the name or know the name, was the leader behind England rugby, team’s success at the 2003 Rugby World Cup. And what he did was he created this methodology with the team about TCUP.
Nicky Lowe [00:19:55]:
And TCUP, TCUP, stands for thinking correctly under pressure and about how a strong leader remains composed and collected environment of, I suppose, calmness and confidence, which empowers teams, and helps them to navigate obstacles with resilience. And that was what Gabriel really reinforced with us as a whole family. Because often when our dogs come across other dogs on walks, they tend to be really vocal, like really barking. And that often makes me feel anxious because I’m like, oh my god. What’s going on? What are the other dog owners gonna think? You know, how are they gonna think that I’m not in control of my dogs? And I could feel my anxiety going up. And it Gabriel was teaching me, nope. The more calm and assertive you can be in that situation, so really stay neutral. Use a neutral sound with them.
Nicky Lowe [00:21:01]:
Reassure them because what he was teaching us is our dogs were getting more vocal because they were picking up on our anxiety and therefore assuming that there was something to be anxious about and they needed to protect us and themselves. And so he was really kind of, no. And again, without speaking to them, he let them know that he was the calm and assertive leader in the room. And that was how so quickly they became different dogs. As he took the lead from me, he they were picking up his energy and just becoming really like, okay. We need we can just relax. And watching him for the cues. And so it’s really shifted my leadership with my dogs.
Nicky Lowe [00:21:48]:
So now I’m prioritizing this calm and assertive leadership and being careful that when I’m not doing the, oh, my little babies and I wanna give them a cuddle, that actually is unbalanced energy, even though it comes from a really good place. And I think that can be really useful in this thinking about how we interact with our teams. And it leads into the next lesson, which lesson 4 is about balancing kindness with firmness. So I think kindness is important in building rapport and trust. But if it’s not coupled with those clear boundaries and expectations, that’s when it can become unhelpful. And so, as I say, Gabriel taught us that dogs, like humans, thrive when they understand the consequences of their actions and the boundaries in which, kind of, they’re gonna be operating. And I think what I was doing is trying to be this lovely, loving dog owner, and I wasn’t balancing it with the firmness. And that was creating this unbalanced energy.
Nicky Lowe [00:22:51]:
And, actually, my dogs were getting confused and feeling like they needed step in as the leaders and protect and take kind of control. And I think where this was really interesting is the point I mentioned earlier about the dogs were kind of, if I opened a bin, they were trying to get the food. When my daughter was eating at the table, a female dog was trying to steal the food from her. And Gabriel just taught us really quickly. Like, he got a piece of bread and put it in the in on the kitchen floor. And if I’d done that or the kids had done that, the dogs would have come in and tried to get it, and we would have been shouting at them and trying to, like, sit. Stay. And he just did this kind of he put it there and he, like, looked at them with this energy of it’s mine.
Nicky Lowe [00:23:33]:
You’re not to touch it. And I was like, this isn’t gonna work. This isn’t gonna work. But, literally, within a minute, they knew. And, actually, my my bitch dog went and sat in the corner of the room, and she didn’t even wanna engage because she was like, there’s no point. And I was like, what has just happened? And it was this kind of just this boundary, this firmness. And actually it created calmness because I wasn’t having to shout at her. I wasn’t having to tell her off.
Nicky Lowe [00:24:02]:
I wasn’t having to put her outside to not steal the food. And it was so powerful in realizing that sometimes in trying to be kind, I’m losing my leadership kind of groundedness, and that creates unhelpful behaviors. And I think there’s so much power in the parallel in our personal leadership, in our personal lives and in our kind of professional lives about how often, particularly as women, because we are socialized to be more nurturing, to be warmer, that we can fall into over being kind and over kind of nurturing, which I absolutely was doing with my dogs. So it shifted the dynamic, and I absolutely love them. And I’m absolutely still giving them cuddles and kind of being the loving owner, but they know that the firmness is there. And that leads me on to the final lesson, lesson number 5, which is all about fostering confidence through our leadership presence. And I think the experience with Gabriel gave me a really powerful insight into that power of leadership presence. Because as I’ve said, dogs naturally gravitate towards confident and assertive leaders, kind of those that just exude their authority and competence.
Nicky Lowe [00:25:22]:
And that strong leadership presence really commands the respect and inspires trust. And that was what Gabriel was doing when he walked into the room with the dogs. And I’ve seen horse whispering used for leadership development, and you may have kind of heard of this. And it’s basically where a leader will be invited to to work with a horse to help them develop their own presence and impact because horses are perfect mirrors reflecting the leadership and communication style you wanna present. And so no riding is involved and actually no language, like physical words, actual words are used, but it’s about your interaction with the horse on the ground. You’re using your energy and your body language and the presence to have the impact you want in guiding the horse. And if you’ve ever seen it done, it’s a really powerful learning experience and development. And I think similar happened with my dogs.
Nicky Lowe [00:26:17]:
It was about, actually, how do you energetically create that strong leadership presence, which is very grounding and assertive, but just makes them feel that they can absolutely trust you and not have to be the guard dog or be anxious. And I think that’s so important for us as leaders as well, about cultivating a strong leadership presence, to earn the respect and trust of the people around us, and how, if we can stay grounded in our confidence and our clarity and our purpose, we really establish ourselves as those credible and capable leaders. And I think that’s what high performing teams, if you can get that team leadership presence in place, it just lays the foundation for high performing teams. And I think that’s what I’ve seen in this experience working with a dog behaviorist. I went into it just wanting to be able to have dogs that were calmer and happier and more well behaved. And I think it’s really impacted me at quite a profound level beyond that. Now I’m not saying that our dogs are perfect, but they are significantly better than they were. And we’ve been empowered with the tools, which is really energy, our energy and our boundaries, to reestablish the behaviors that we want.
Nicky Lowe [00:27:43]:
And I really hope by sharing that story with you and my experience, it gets you thinking about your own leadership, either with your own pets, but with the people in your personal and professional lives, about how, if we can stand in that, kind of calm, assertive leadership and balance kindness with firmness, put our boundaries in place, have clear communication, and think about our leadership presence, how it could transform in literally minutes our relationship and our dynamics in our life, because it’s something that I’m going to be reflecting on for a long, long time and experimenting with. And I really hope sharing that story with you, it does the same for you. So as always, thanks for listening. And until next time, take care. If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Wisdom For Working Mums, please share it on social media and with your friends and family. I’d love to connect with you too. So if you head over to wisdom for working mums.co.uk, you’ll find a link on how to do this. And if you love the show and really want to support it, please go to Itunes, write a review, and subscribe.
Nicky Lowe [00:28:56]:
You’ll be helping another working mum find this resource too. Thanks so much for listening.
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